View Poll Results: Would you support the decision of Texas to peacefully and democratically secede, if voted upon

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  • Yes

    69 51.49%
  • No

    61 45.52%
  • Bumbershoot

    4 2.99%
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Thread: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

  1. #471
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    It's their state. Not my business.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    i will ask another way, are you saying the 35% can take Texas out of the union, over the 65% .....or split the state and remove themselves?
    The latter.

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    The latter.
    that cannot be done, except with the consent of the people of the state.

    the state belongs to the people of the state as a whole.


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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    I think the U.S. would benefit from separating into several different countries. For the most part, different parts of the country are pretty homogenous in the way they think, and shouldn't be controlled by people from other regions of the country. Why should the abortion views of the southeast affect the west coast, and vice versa? Why should be tax policy of California affect Texas?

    It would make sense to me to turn the west coast, Midwest, northeast, southeast into separate countries.

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    So what on Earth are those that are against Texas being able to secede proposing?

    That if they try to leave that the military forces them to stay?

    If that is so, that is lunacy, imo. To kill people to stop them from leaving your country - that is Soviet Union stuff.

    Just check out the Ukraine (as the Ukrainian government is refusing to let the Donetsk region leave even though an overwhelming majority of them want to go) and look what a mess that is. Stopping Texas from leaving using force could make that war look like a picnic.
    'What kind of sick and twisted toy factory is this?'
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    So what on Earth are those that are against Texas being able to secede proposing?

    That if they try to leave that the military forces them to stay?

    If that is so, that is lunacy, imo. To kill people to stop them from leaving your country - that is Soviet Union stuff.

    Just check out the Ukraine (as the Ukrainian government is refusing to let the Donetsk region leave even though an overwhelming majority of them want to go) and look what a mess that is. Stopping Texas from leaving using force could make that war look like a picnic.
    to me its liked the deranged husband who says to his wife.."if you ever try to leave me, i will kill you"


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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    how is secession illegal, since you can only quote the court, which is part of the federal government the southern states are leaving.

    WHILE the founding fathers state the federal government has no power to stop a state from leaving the union....convention note may 31st 1787

    WHILE it was taught before the civil war, that secession was up to a states to decide....."view of the constitution" 1829
    !.. Illegal act. Deal with it.

    2. You misquote Madison. Article 1, Section 8, Clause 15: Records of the Federal Convention
    If you want to use him as a source, recall when NY and Virginia wanted to include the right to secession when debating Ratifying the US Constitution, Madison explicitly said *NO* - "the Constitution requires an adoption in toto, and for ever."

    3. You have already been smacked down before with your Rawles Lost Causer nonsense.

    To repeat:

    He was a penny ante lawyer and DA with an opinion William Rawle.

    Second, Rawles book was used *one Year at West Point. (1826).* Even that is under debate as to the extent it was used as a text book.

    *And that year WP had a whopping 43 graduates.

    And if you *are* going to quote the two bit lawyer and author on secession, (as if he was authoritative) -

    add this one:

    "The consequences of an absolute secession cannot be mistaken, and they would be serious and afflicting. . . . Separation would produce jealousies and discord, which in time would ripen into mutual hostilities, and while our country would be weakened by internal war, foreign enemies would be encouraged to invade with the flattering prospect of subduing in detail those whom, collectively, they would dread to encounter. P. 299.

    In every aspect therefore which this great subject presents, we feel the deepest impression of a sacred obligation to preserve the union of our country; we feel our glory, our safety, and our happiness, involved in it; we unite the interests of those who coldly calculate advantages with those who glow with what is little short of filial affection; and we must resist the attempt of its own citizens to destroy it, with the same feelings that we should avert the dagger of the parricide. P. 301. "


    Was Secession Taught at West Point? Century Magazine 1909

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paperview View Post
    !.. Illegal act. Deal with it.

    2. You misquote Madison. Article 1, Section 8, Clause 15: Records of the Federal Convention
    If you want to use him as a source, recall when NY and Virginia wanted to include the right to secession when debating Ratifying the US Constitution, Madison explicitly said *NO* - "the Constitution requires an adoption in toto, and for ever."

    3. You have already been smacked down before with your Rawles Lost Causer nonsense.

    To repeat:

    He was a penny ante lawyer and DA with an opinion William Rawle.

    Second, Rawles book was used *one Year at West Point. (1826).* Even that is under debate as to the extent it was used as a text book.

    *And that year WP had a whopping 43 graduates.

    And if you *are* going to quote the two bit lawyer and author on secession, (as if he was authoritative) -

    add this one:

    "The consequences of an absolute secession cannot be mistaken, and they would be serious and afflicting. . . . Separation would produce jealousies and discord, which in time would ripen into mutual hostilities, and while our country would be weakened by internal war, foreign enemies would be encouraged to invade with the flattering prospect of subduing in detail those whom, collectively, they would dread to encounter. P. 299.

    In every aspect therefore which this great subject presents, we feel the deepest impression of a sacred obligation to preserve the union of our country; we feel our glory, our safety, and our happiness, involved in it; we unite the interests of those who coldly calculate advantages with those who glow with what is little short of filial affection; and we must resist the attempt of its own citizens to destroy it, with the same feelings that we should avert the dagger of the parricide. P. 301. "


    Was Secession Taught at West Point? Century Magazine 1909



    sorry but you cannot get around the founders, and what was taught of the constitution before the civl war.......s


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  9. #479
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Yes, its also wrong. The right to liberty superceeds contracts or kingdoms. Thats the whole point of the Declaration. Individuals have an unalienable right to be free.

    Now, if you dont beleive that, then ok. Agree to disagree.
    We have a system set up to change our Government and laws. We are a Republic.

    It's worked pretty damn good for lo these many years.

    If the people don't like their government, they have the power to alter or abolish it peaceably. The colonies did not have that power.

    Now, if you don't believe that, then ok. Have your anarchy

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    to me its liked the deranged husband who says to his wife.."if you ever try to leave me, i will kill you"
    More akin to a cheating husband who decides he wants a divorce and declares:
    too bad, I'm keeping the house.

    That said: both are poor analogies. The system we set up to govern is not like a husband and wife squabble.

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