View Poll Results: Would you support the decision of Texas to peacefully and democratically secede, if voted upon

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  • Yes

    69 51.49%
  • No

    61 45.52%
  • Bumbershoot

    4 2.99%
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Thread: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

  1. #161
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    I believe that fits with the intent of the U.S. Constitution. Those who wished to join the Union could do so if those already in it consented. And this nation was founded on the concept that when a government breaks faith with the people and oppresses them against their will, that the people are justified in dissolving or removing themselves from that government.

    Our Declaration of Independence from England started with these famous words:
    When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. . .

    The opening statement was followed with acknowledgment that a people should not withdraw from a government without just and extreme cause. And then it went on to list the grievances the Colonists had with King George that provided the justification for dismissing the English government.

    Certainly Texas could compile a long list of grievances of how the federal government has abused, misused, misapplied, and mischaracterized the letter and law of the Constitution. If they left, I want New Mexico to go with them.

    The difficulty comes in the many many major federal installations in Texas not the least of which are NASA, 25 military installations and bases, et al that belong to us all. What could we do about that?

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    I believe that fits with the intent of the U.S. Constitution. Those who wished to join the Union could do so if those already in it consented. And this nation was founded on the concept that when a government breaks faith with the people and oppresses them against their will, that the people are justified in dissolving or removing themselves from that government.

    Our Declaration of Independence from England started with these famous words:
    When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. . .

    The opening statement was followed with acknowledgment that a people should not withdraw from a government without just and extreme cause. And then it went on to list the grievances the Colonists had with King George that provided the justification for dismissing the English government.

    Certainly Texas could compile a long list of grievances of how the federal government has abused, misused, misapplied, and mischaracterized the letter and law of the Constitution. If they left, I want New Mexico to go with them.

    The difficulty comes in the many many major federal installations in Texas not the least of which are NASA, 25 military installations and bases, et al that belong to us all. What could we do about that?
    In the case of NASA, I could envision a scenario where it could remain in Houston under United States control, similar to how CERN operates in Switzerland - owned by the EU but physically located outside the EU.

    Being a peaceful, scientific endevour, I think it benefits us all and I'm certain there's room to cooperate there.

    In the case of the military bases, it gets trickier. If the separation were amicable, I see no issue with allowing the bases to continue to operate, similar to how the U.S. has bases in many other peaceful nations around the world. I would even envision Texas being part of the North Anerican Defense Treaty that includes Canada.

    I think Canada is a good model to keep in mind when trying to envision what an independent Texas would look like. A friendly partner with close ties to the USA, but at the same time an independent nation with the right to self-determination and governance.

  3. #163
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    The high ground.
    That's moral ground. You said you had legal ground, what is it?
    So follow me into the desert
    As desperate as you are
    Where the moon is glued to a picture of heaven
    And all the little pigs have God

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    That's moral ground. You said you had legal ground, what is it?
    We have the legal right to split in to 5 states.. That's 10 new senators from Texas. Would you be OK with 1/5th of the senators in the U.S. being from Texas?

    They would kick us out before they ever allowed that to finalize

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    If voted on by who? Just Texans or the whole country.

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by avatar View Post
    If voted on by who? Just Texans or the whole country.
    Texans.

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    Are you talking about the part where Congress is granted the power to suppress insurrection?
    Wanting to leave the union by a vote of the state government is not an insurrection.

  8. #168
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Actually, that splitting into multiple states and thus getting more senators is sounding pretty good.

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    Actually, that splitting into multiple states and thus getting more senators is sounding pretty good.
    Not a bad trump card to have in your back pocket!

  10. #170
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    We have the legal right to split in to 5 states.. That's 10 new senators from Texas. Would you be OK with 1/5th of the senators in the U.S. being from Texas?

    They would kick us out before they ever allowed that to finalize
    You didn't answer my question.
    So follow me into the desert
    As desperate as you are
    Where the moon is glued to a picture of heaven
    And all the little pigs have God

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