View Poll Results: Would you support the decision of Texas to peacefully and democratically secede, if voted upon

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  • Yes

    69 51.49%
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    61 45.52%
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Thread: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

  1. #151
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    What legal ground is that?
    The high ground.

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    You're right in one sense, the majority of Texans do not want to secede. I have seen polls ranging from 20-40 percent, depending on how the question is asked.

    You are wrong if you think you can boil Texas secessionist sentiments , which have been fairly constant since before the Civil War, down to fad issues of the day like public religion and gay rights. One has to keep in mind Texas' unique history and situation.

    Texas is the only state that was once it's own Republic. We fought and won our own war of independence against Mexico. Today, the state of Texas maintains a sense of independence. We are far from just another rinkydink state....we are the largest in the lower 48 in land mass, we have a population and economy comparable to that of Canada, we have access to two bodies of water, 2 of the top 5 metro areas in the United States, and over 1/10th of the workd's Fortune 500 companies are headquartered here.

    Yet we have the same representation in the Senate as New Hampshire or Delaware.

    To characterize the question of secession as something limited to "nutters" does it a disservice, in my opinion. In a larger sense, there is some credence to the argument that a government which is closer to home is better able to service the needs of said population, and one can rightly question at what point a nation of 300+ million that encompasses an entire continent becomes too large to govern in a way that protects the interests of each of those 300 million dwellers.

    We're a diverse country with diverse histories and divergent ideals. Perhaps rather than continue on our present course of infighting and polarization, it would be wise to consider alternative ways to divide up governance in such a way that all parties can have their interests fairly represented.
    I'm saying that only because there have been rumblings among the ultra-religious that if the Supreme Court legalizes gay marriage, there may be a civil war by the religious reich. It most certainly is a "threat" today, but as you point out, it's been going on since the Civil War and nothing has happened yet. A threat that is never going to happen isn't much of a threat and nobody takes these people seriously. The fact is, they have neither the will, nor the ability, nor the balls to actually do anything. They'd get stomped on like the irrational bugs they are if they ever made a half-hearted attempt. They know that. The best they can do is flap their lips a lot and certainly, that is their right, just like it's my right to be able to point and laugh at their stupidity.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    The high ground.
    Everyone claims the moral high ground. Nobody is actually able to prove they have it.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    If there is a legal mechanism for any state to cede from the union and the required number of citizens desire succession, I support the right.
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    You can move it to California if you want. Was just offering to let you keep it running in Houston free of charge if that's more attractive to you than building a whole new set of facilities somewhere else, as scientific advancement benefits us all.

    No need for any potential split to be hostile, that's a point I think many here are missing
    That is just one part of my post , but I do find the part that you had refute was reasonable . We are talking about he government though which isn't actually reasonable . Hat we did to get that land in the first place was more than just hostile. The resources that you already mentioned is not something America is going to just let go.
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    If the people of Texas or any state, or city for that matter, want to be autonomous then they should have that right.

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    I think Texas should be responsible for its fair share, sure, but what that "fair share" is would likely be a point of contention.
    No doubt at all. I had the impression you were denying any liability. My mistake. Sorry.
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Yes.

    I'd even support fortification of the Mason-Dixon line but that's another story

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    No, Texas is apart of the US; you can't leave.
    Well, if it's already apart..............

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by BrewerBob View Post
    If the people of Texas or any state, or city for that matter, want to be autonomous then they should have that right.
    I believe that fits with the intent of the U.S. Constitution. Those who wished to join the Union could do so if those already in it consented. And this nation was founded on the concept that when a government breaks faith with the people and oppresses them against their will, that the people are justified in dissolving or removing themselves from that government.

    Our Declaration of Independence from England started with these famous words:
    When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. . .

    The opening statement was followed with acknowledgment that a people should not withdraw from a government without just and extreme cause. And then it went on to list the grievances the Colonists had with King George that provided the justification for dismissing the English government.

    Certainly Texas could compile a long list of grievances of how the federal government has abused, misused, misapplied, and mischaracterized the letter and law of the Constitution. If they left, I want New Mexico to go with them.

    The difficulty comes in the many many major federal installations in Texas not the least of which are NASA, 25 military installations and bases, et al that belong to us all. What could we do about that?
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