View Poll Results: Would you support the decision of Texas to peacefully and democratically secede, if voted upon

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  • Yes

    69 51.49%
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    61 45.52%
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Thread: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

  1. #1281
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    no state is going to secede unless it believes the federal government is violating the constitution and rights of the people, because it would lose out on the benefits of the union.

    Texas is it declaration states exactly that.....the northern states along with the federal government is violating the law, harassing southern citizens, and creating legislation which is unfair to southern citizens and stealing southern property.
    Do they have a case, do you think?
    “A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices” George Orwell


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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Do they have a case, do you think?
    the founders declared separation because the king was committing acts the founders deemed unlawful.

    the S. states did the same, and in the same matter.

    it is a simple principles, that people have the right to self government, the founders recognized this, our founding documents recognized this, and even the u.s. federal government recognizes this via federal law.

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    natural rights are part of the organic laws of america and are our nation's foundation, which all of our laws are created from.
    Having a natural right doesnt give anyone the right to take rights away from other people. These natural rights that you speak of are not afforded to governments, not even State Governments. The founders in talking about natural rights were talking about individual humans. Individual rights trump collective rights as a whole.

    Of course claiming to have a natural right is meaningless if the government doesnt protect that right. The founders believed strongly that the colonies were better able to protect those natural rights as a union. The Articles of Confederation was a failure because it left too much power to State Governments. So logically a State leaving the US Constitution is not a good solution. And if the US Government has become corrupted beyond any attempt to fix the solution isnt to divide the country up allowing corrupt State Governments to do their evilness. And if the US Government isnt corrupted beyond all hope then it is the State Government that is the corrupted government trying to leave the US Constitution behind so it can do its evilness.

    Admittedly I am dogmatic about keeping the US Constitution valid. But the secessionist is dogmatic about leaving the US Constitution behind. Who is being the Constitutionalist then?

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    the founders declared separation because the king was committing acts the founders deemed unlawful.

    the S. states did the same, and in the same matter.

    it is a simple principles, that people have the right to self government, the founders recognized this, our founding documents recognized this, and even the u.s. federal government recognizes this via federal law.
    ALL Americans right now have a self government. There is no reason for State secession under that premise.

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by freedomfromall View Post
    having a natural right doesnt give anyone the right to take rights away from other people. These natural rights that you speak of are not afforded to governments, not even state governments. The founders in talking about natural rights were talking about individual humans. Individual rights trump collective rights as a whole.

    Of course claiming to have a natural right is meaningless if the government doesnt protect that right. The founders believed strongly that the colonies were better able to protect those natural rights as a union. The articles of confederation was a failure because it left too much power to state governments. So logically a state leaving the us constitution is not a good solution. And if the us government has become corrupted beyond any attempt to fix the solution isnt to divide the country up allowing corrupt state governments to do their evilness. And if the us government isnt corrupted beyond all hope then it is the state government that is the corrupted government trying to leave the us constitution behind so it can do its evilness.

    Admittedly i am dogmatic about keeping the us constitution valid. But the secessionist is dogmatic about leaving the us constitution behind. Who is being the constitutionalist then?
    who rights are being taken away?

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    ALL Americans right now have a self government. There is no reason for State secession under that premise.
    oh.....right to self government mean the people have a right to any government they desire to create for themselves,...therefore it they would choose to create a direct democracy it is within their right.

    which that government is not compatible with the constitution.

    Yet it is not to be understood, that its interposition would be justifiable, if the people of a state should determine to retire from the Union, whether they adopted another or retained the same form of government, or if they should, with the express intention of seceding, expunge the representative system from their code, and thereby incapacitate themselves from concurring according to the mode now prescribed, in the choice of certain public officers of the United States.

    The principle of representation, although certainly the wisest and best, is not essential to the being of a republic, but to continue a member of the Union, it must be preserved, and therefore the guarantee must be so construed. It depends on the state itself to retain or abolish the principle of representation, because it depends on itself whether it will continue a member of the Union. To deny this right would be inconsistent with the principle on which all our political systems are founded, which is, that the people have in all cases, a right to determine how they will be governed.

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    who rights are being taken away?
    American citizens living in the State where the State government decided that their residence is no longer American. You could say that Americans could just move if they disagree, why then didnt the framers of the US Constitution not just move? Why didnt the States just break up when the Articles were not working?

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Too many Texans derive part of the swaggering culture from a nation that has the most powerful military on earth. Point out that an independent Texas would be an impotent player... and any movement to secession will fail.

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    American citizens living in the State where the State government decided that their residence is no longer American. You could say that Americans could just move if they disagree, why then didnt the framers of the US Constitution not just move? Why didnt the States just break up when the Articles were not working?
    tell me how you have a natural right to be a american citizen...

    what violates a right of a person?

    1.... then one citizen acts upon another citizen and causes damage, lost, pain, death, and these fall under criminal law.

    2 ......when a government creates a law, or an official of a government prevents a person exercising a right.

    can you tell me how a government by seceding is preventing you from exercising ........what right?

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    oh.....right to self government mean the people have a right to any government they desire to create for themselves,...therefore it they would choose to create a direct democracy it is within their right.

    which that government is not compatible with the constitution.

    Yet it is not to be understood, that its interposition would be justifiable, if the people of a state should determine to retire from the Union, whether they adopted another or retained the same form of government, or if they should, with the express intention of seceding, expunge the representative system from their code, and thereby incapacitate themselves from concurring according to the mode now prescribed, in the choice of certain public officers of the United States.

    The principle of representation, although certainly the wisest and best, is not essential to the being of a republic, but to continue a member of the Union, it must be preserved, and therefore the guarantee must be so construed. It depends on the state itself to retain or abolish the principle of representation, because it depends on itself whether it will continue a member of the Union. To deny this right would be inconsistent with the principle on which all our political systems are founded, which is, that the people have in all cases, a right to determine how they will be governed.
    Us real American desire the US Constitution. If some anti Americans disagree then war us real Americans and see who wins. I stand behind the US Constitution, not whatever else that people want. And as every American soldier has ever done I am willing to give my life to protect the USA. SO those that desire to take over the USA or even a part of it, need to realize they have no right to do so. State secession is the act of taking over a part of the USA. You can deny that until you fingers bleed from typing, but go look at a map of this country, there is only one international border and it isnt between States. If a State somehow magically seceded that map would have to be altered. Meaning that a portion of this country was taken away. According to you though Mexicans could move into my State achieve a majority and express their natural right to self govern, and boom I am in Mexico. With zero natural rights of my own to stop the majority rule that made it happen.

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