View Poll Results: Would you support the decision of Texas to peacefully and democratically secede, if voted upon

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    69 51.49%
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Thread: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

  1. #1271
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    do you believe that a state is going to depart from natural law, and take away people rights if it secedes.
    There is no guarantee that it won't. If a state secedes, then it is an independent nation and can set up whatever government it wants to.

    When the Confederacy seceded, had it been allowed to secede that is, can you think of anyone's natural rights that might have been lost as a result?
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    There is no guarantee that it won't. If a state secedes, then it is an independent nation and can set up whatever government it wants to.

    When the Confederacy seceded, had it been allowed to secede that is, can you think of anyone's natural rights that might have been lost as a result?
    the constitution of the confederacy, is modeled on the federal constitution with same rights of the people ......and the southern states followed the same avenue the founders did when they separated from Britain.

    if a state were to secede, which i don't see it, its going to be for the reason of the federal government violating the constitution and the rights of the people, no state is going to secede on based on that and then do the same thing they accuse the federal government of doing....because that would make no sense.


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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    the constitution of the confederacy, is modeled on the federal constitution with same rights of the people ......and the southern states followed the same avenue the founders did when they separated from Britain.

    if a state were to secede, which i don't see it, its going to be for the reason of the federal government violating the constitution and the rights of the people, no state is going to secede on based on that and then do the same thing they accuse the federal government of doing....because that would make no sense.
    People do things that make no sense all the time.

    And, had the confederacy been allowed to secede, Constitution or no, they would have continued to keep slaves. It seems to me that the natural rights of the slaves might have been in some jeopardy.
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    People do things that make no sense all the time.

    And, had the confederacy been allowed to secede, Constitution or no, they would have continued to keep slaves. It seems to me that the natural rights of the slaves might have been in some jeopardy.
    the states did secede, during the war the federal government stated the southern state had not secede, yet after the war the federal government stated they did in order to punish them.

    the states created declarations of independence, and formed a government of the people, slaves were considered property and not people which is how they were salves.


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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    the states did secede, during the war the federal government stated the southern state had not secede, yet after the war the federal government stated they did in order to punish them.

    the states created declarations of independence, and formed a government of the people, slaves were considered property and not people which is how they were salves.
    Yes, that is so.

    Now, how is it that considering people as "property" is not violating their natural rights?
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Yes, that is so.

    Now, how is it that considering people as "property" is not violating their natural rights?
    because they were property before secession...secession did not change that


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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    because they were property before secession...secession did not change that
    So, since their natural rights had been taken away already, secession didn't cause them to be taken away. That would be a good point were it not for the Emancipation Proclamation that started the whole thing.

    Now, as for the theoretical modern secession, what would keep the new nation from instituting other laws that would take away natural rights? Do women have to have the right to vote and own property, for example? They didn't when the Constitution was written, after all. Would it be OK to discriminate against people of color, or against whites? How about gays? Could they institute a religious state in which adherence to a particular religious dogma would be required of all citizens? The new nation would be sovereign, after all.
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    So, since their natural rights had been taken away already, secession didn't cause them to be taken away. That would be a good point were it not for the Emancipation Proclamation that started the whole thing.

    Now, as for the theoretical modern secession, what would keep the new nation from instituting other laws that would take away natural rights? Do women have to have the right to vote and own property, for example? They didn't when the Constitution was written, after all. Would it be OK to discriminate against people of color, or against whites? How about gays? Could they institute a religious state in which adherence to a particular religious dogma would be required of all citizens? The new nation would be sovereign, after all.
    well the federal constitution didn't deny people anything, it about powers....not the granting of rights.

    remember that the bill of rights originally did not apply to states, people lived under their own state constitutions with the same rights recognized by the bill of rights and did for almost 100 years.

    as to the questions i really cant answer on what would happen in the state on the actions of the government, but i don't see it seceding because of a tyrannical federal government to institute its own tyrannical laws.


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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    well the federal constitution didn't deny people anything, it about powers....not the granting of rights.

    remember that the bill of rights originally did not apply to states, people lived under their own state constitutions with the same rights recognized by the bill of rights and did for almost 100 years.

    as to the questions i really cant answer on what would happen in the state on the actions of the government, but i don't see it seceding because of a tyrannical federal government to institute its own tyrannical laws.
    What if it seceded over the first amendment injunction against the establishment of a state religion?

    There is no shortage of people in the US who think the government needs to be more religious, after all.

    Point is, a state could secede for any reason. It wouldn't have to be because the government was "tyrannical."
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    What if it seceded over the first amendment injunction against the establishment of a state religion?

    There is no shortage of people in the US who think the government needs to be more religious, after all.

    Point is, a state could secede for any reason. It wouldn't have to be because the government was "tyrannical."
    no state is going to secede unless it believes the federal government is violating the constitution and rights of the people, because it would lose out on the benefits of the union.

    Texas is it declaration states exactly that.....the northern states along with the federal government is violating the law, harassing southern citizens, and creating legislation which is unfair to southern citizens and stealing southern property.


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