View Poll Results: Would you support the decision of Texas to peacefully and democratically secede, if voted upon

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    69 51.49%
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Thread: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

  1. #1241
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Does anyone here really believe that, were a secession election to be held in Texas, the people of that state would elect to secede?

    It's an interesting question, but an academic one.

    And, it seems to me it was a question that was settled via a civil war a few years back.
    do i think it would happen...no.

    but what does strike be as weird......is that americans are willing to imprison and EVEN kill other people to keep them in the union at all cost, even though there is no threat to the constitution or any Citizen via secession.

    how did we get to the point of........."if you ever try to leave me i will kill you first"
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    do you actually believe a state is going to leave the union in a state of anarchy?.......it takes law and organization for the people to make their own self determination to secede.

    if you would read about the ratification in the state conventions, the subject of "we the people" came up......because many of the founders argued it should have been "we the states",

    the Preamble was put into the Constitution during the last days of the Convention by the Committee on Style, it was not a proposal or discussed at convention beforehand.

    AOC created a perpetual Union of the states, the constitution seeks to create a more prefect union of the states.
    I didnt say anything about anarchy that was all your doing. I asserted though that a State that seeks to secede is doing so as a authoritarian government well outside of the principles of the DOI and the Constitution.

    ANd history shows that indeed the preamble says "We the people of the United States" See that word united? Well it means that the States are united not separate. We are not the separated states of America. We as a people are one and you will be hard pressed to dispute that fact.

    As I said it would be impossible to peacefully separate a jurisdiction for this country. Socially and legally every area of this country is deeply intertwined. There is zero intellectual merit in asserting that a State could possibly for some strange reason leave this country.

  3. #1243
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    I didnt say anything about anarchy that was all your doing. I asserted though that a State that seeks to secede is doing so as a authoritarian government well outside of the principles of the DOI and the Constitution.

    ANd history shows that indeed the preamble says "We the people of the United States" See that word united? Well it means that the States are united not separate. We are not the separated states of America. We as a people are one and you will be hard pressed to dispute that fact.

    As I said it would be impossible to peacefully separate a jurisdiction for this country. Socially and legally every area of this country is deeply intertwined. There is zero intellectual merit in asserting that a State could possibly for some strange reason leave this country.
    how is it being authoritarian?......when the people either by convention or direct vote instruct their government what action to take...

    the union... is the states not the people...

    each state is sovereign and independent body....all it takes is to read the founders to discover this.
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  4. #1244
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    While unlikely anytime too soon, it's not unthinkable that one day, Texas might vote to secede from the United States and re-establish itself as an independent nation.

    If done in a peaceful and democratic manner...that is, if the people of Texas overwhelmingly voted to withdraw from the U.S. In a referendum similar to the one recently held in Scotland, would you support the right of Texas to go her own way?
    That is illegal under the current state constitution. The original constitution allowed it, the one created after the civil war does not.
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    how is it being authoritarian?......when the people either by convention or direct vote instruct their government what action to take...
    A State Government has no authority to dictate (regardless of a vote or convention) whether to disobey the law of the land. Such a act by Said State Government would be outside of the States powers under the US Constitution. Of course you could say that once the State left the Constitution that it would no longer be required to respect the law of the land. But the act of leaving the Constitution no matter the method used, is not actually secession it is a decree by the State Government.


    the union... is the states not the people...
    SO the people are not in the States? The people are not the ones that hold the power? So very authoritarian.

    each state is sovereign and independent body....all it takes is to read the founders to discover this.
    The States are not separate countries. The USA is one country. A State is merely a Jurisdiction in that one country. By having States, Counties, and townships etc. representation is at its fullest, along with checks and balances. Removing a State from the equation is a direct ideologically coup of the founders assertions about a Republican form of Government. State secession is a insult to the founders and to the American way.

    I only support the American way of Government period. If a majority of a State disagrees with the American way of government then too bad. They should realize that their treasonous actions will be dealt with. ANd if people believe that the US Government is no longer adherent to the American way of Governance then that case should be made as a people not a individual State. I means seriously a State government is just as corruptible as any other type of Government. More than likely (and plenty of data shows this) those that want a State to secede are a bunch of corrupt people anyways. Just show me one State secession group that is acting in good faith and isnt out to impose their alternate form of government? None of these people in the secession movement want to return this country to where it rightfully should be, they all want to revision history and create an entirely different form of government. A type of government that adheres to their particular ideological beliefs.

  6. #1246
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    A State Government has no authority to dictate (regardless of a vote or convention) whether to disobey the law of the land. Such a act by Said State Government would be outside of the States powers under the US Constitution. Of course you could say that once the State left the Constitution that it would no longer be required to respect the law of the land. But the act of leaving the Constitution no matter the method used, is not actually secession it is a decree by the State Government.


    SO the people are not in the States? The people are not the ones that hold the power? So very authoritarian.

    The States are not separate countries. The USA is one country. A State is merely a Jurisdiction in that one country. By having States, Counties, and townships etc. representation is at its fullest, along with checks and balances. Removing a State from the equation is a direct ideologically coup of the founders assertions about a Republican form of Government. State secession is a insult to the founders and to the American way.<-------------

    I only support the American way of Government period. If a majority of a State disagrees with the American way of government then too bad. They should realize that their treasonous actions will be dealt with. ANd if people believe that the US Government is no longer adherent to the American way of Governance then that case should be made as a people not a individual State. I means seriously a State government is just as corruptible as any other type of Government. More than likely (and plenty of data shows this) those that want a State to secede are a bunch of corrupt people anyways. Just show me one State secession group that is acting in good faith and isnt out to impose their alternate form of government? None of these people in the secession movement want to return this country to where it rightfully should be, they all want to revision history and create an entirely different form of government. A type of government that adheres to their particular ideological beliefs.
    i would suggest you read and fully understand what a republican form of government is.


    A federation (from Latin: foedus, gen.: foederis, "covenant"), also known as a federal state, is a political entity characterized by a union of partially self-governing states or regions under a central (federal) government.

    The governmental or constitutional structure found in a federation is known as federalism

    https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Federation
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  7. #1247
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    do i think it would happen...no.

    but what does strike be as weird......is that americans are willing to imprison and EVEN kill other people to keep them in the union at all cost, even though there is no threat to the constitution or any Citizen via secession.

    how did we get to the point of........."if you ever try to leave me i will kill you first"
    Secession without the agreement of every single person in a state (which is almost certainly not going to happen) includes a certain necessity of taking property from some people. Almost certainly there would also be some aggression. This fantasy that everyone would be perfectly happy with secession is just that, fantasy.
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Secession without the agreement of every single person in a state (which is almost certainly not going to happen) includes a certain necessity of taking property from some people. Almost certainly there would also be some aggression. This fantasy that everyone would be perfectly happy with secession is just that, fantasy.
    that is ridiculous, state constitutional amendments are added by a majority of people supporting it, its not all or none proposition.

    no one said everyone would be happy, so where did you get that from?
    Last edited by Master PO; 06-15-15 at 05:43 PM.
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    SO the people are not in the States? The people are not the ones that hold the power? So very authoritarian.
    It would seem that the logical conclusion is that Barkmann belies in the convenient fiction that you can have states without the people that make up those very states. I guess he sees in his mind vast physical landscapes devoid of actual living breathing people and only some legal fiction called states which somehow, someway represent their own interests independent of any actual population.
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Secession without the agreement of every single person in a state (which is almost certainly not going to happen) includes a certain necessity of taking property from some people. Almost certainly there would also be some aggression. This fantasy that everyone would be perfectly happy with secession is just that, fantasy.
    Every single person in the state, really? Why not just a simple majority, or perhaps a 2/3 super majority or something.

    There really is no precedent, or is there? How many people voted to join the Confederacy?
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