View Poll Results: Would you support the decision of Texas to peacefully and democratically secede, if voted upon

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  • Yes

    69 51.49%
  • No

    61 45.52%
  • Bumbershoot

    4 2.99%
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Thread: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

  1. #101
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    I know what Article IV Section 3 means. It counters the argument that Texas could legally divide itself in 2 or 5 or 10 and force the United States to kick it out of the Union. Note the "B" in the post I was responding to.

    SC Justices Joseph Story and Salmon Chase both argue that the Constitution amends the Articles of Confederation and the Articles call for a perpetual union. Additionally there's at least one SC precedent for interpreting the Constitution as calling for a perpetual union. Given it's importance I'd also argue if the drafters contemplated that states would be allowed to leave the union it would be explicitly mentioned in the Constitution and not left to chance as an unnamed power delegated to the states.
    question..... do the people have a right to alter or abolish the government they have?


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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Y'see there's a mismisconception right away. There's no evidence that Scotland could do it, since they've decided not to try.

    Fortunately that wouldn't be my problem, would it. Do you accept that Texas would have responsibility for any of it? BTW, Scottish leaders accepted that they would accept responsibility for their share of the UK national debt.
    I think Texas should be responsible for its fair share, sure, but what that "fair share" is would likely be a point of contention.

  3. #103
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    The Supreme Court emphatically ruled that states do not have the right to secede. See Texas v. White. https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/74/700

    Now there are those that would say that they interpret the constitution differently. Well, that doesn't matter. The federal court system is the ultimate arbiters of what is and is not constitutional. If the supreme court ruled that you have a constitutional right to a Texan wiping your ass every day for the rest of your adult life, then that is a constitutional right you would have. Your opinion of what is and is not constitutional is irrelevant unless you sit on the federal judiciary.
    The question then becomes, does Texas really have to listen to the Feds ruling, and by what mechanism could the fed govt enforce its rulings?

    For example, say Texas decides to simply fire all federal judges, prosecutors, etc. and not reappoint anyone to fill their places. How would you enforce federal law in Texas if Texas simply refused , peacefully, to cooperate?

  4. #104
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    While unlikely anytime too soon, it's not unthinkable that one day, Texas might vote to secede from the United States and re-establish itself as an independent nation.

    If done in a peaceful and democratic manner...that is, if the people of Texas overwhelmingly voted to withdraw from the U.S. In a referendum similar to the one recently held in Scotland, would you support the right of Texas to go her own way?
    Yes of course, and so should Washington if they so choose to do so. I don't think that Washington should only support such actions in other countries. But then I never thought that "preservation of the union" was ever worth the cost of 600,000 American lives, either!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  5. #105
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    The congressional joint resolution for the annexation of Texas, passed on March 1, 1845, provided that new states, not to exceed four, could be carved out of Texas, requiring only a majority vote in the state.

    Article IV section3, as you've quoted it, doesn't apply because Texas already has this approval from congress, as it was the U.S. Congress that passed said annexation agreement in 1845.

    And, again, the U.S. Public didnt have the stomach for war in Vietnam or Iraq. They were dragged kicking and screaming in to WW1 and 2. Do you really think the U.S. Public would tolerate a war so close to home, to see the blood of people just like them spilled day after day? I highly doubt it.
    The resolution is unconstitutional. Congress does not have the power make that agreement. The Constitution specifically states that a state may not be subdivided.
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    That was far from a full embargo.

    The American People just don't have the stomach to do the things you're suggesting, especially since so many have family in Texas
    Was there not a civil damn war over secession?

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  7. #107
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    question..... do the people have a right to alter or abolish the government they have?
    Under US law? Yes. Via the Constitutional amendment process.
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    The question then becomes, does Texas really have to listen to the Feds ruling, and by what mechanism could the fed govt enforce its rulings?

    For example, say Texas decides to simply fire all federal judges, prosecutors, etc. and not reappoint anyone to fill their places. How would you enforce federal law in Texas if Texas simply refused , peacefully, to cooperate?
    Cut every last dime of federal subsidies heading anywhere near Texas. There is always that option.

    Quid pro quo.

    You become a jackass we become a jackass kind of scenario.
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  9. #109
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    The question then becomes, does Texas really have to listen to the Feds ruling, and by what mechanism could the fed govt enforce its rulings?

    For example, say Texas decides to simply fire all federal judges, prosecutors, etc. and not reappoint anyone to fill their places. How would you enforce federal law in Texas if Texas simply refused , peacefully, to cooperate?
    The military would come in and force the state of Texas to comply just like segregationists were forced to comply with federal rulings back in the 50s and 60s. I am not sure what kind of a fantasy world you are living in if you think that any state could just ignore the federal judiciary without consequence.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    The resolution is unconstitutional. Congress does not have the power make that agreement. The Constitution specifically states that a state may not be subdivided.
    States may not be subdivided without the approval of congress. Congress pre-approved Texas in 1845, therefore it's up to Texas whether to split

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