View Poll Results: Would you support the decision of Texas to peacefully and democratically secede, if voted upon

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  • Yes

    69 51.49%
  • No

    61 45.52%
  • Bumbershoot

    4 2.99%
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Thread: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

  1. #1051
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    But that is the point. You don't have a natural right to do so. It is dependent on society recognizing those things as rights. Anything/everything you do affects others, even living. In living, you use resources that means less resources for others.
    You're fundamentally incorrect. Human beings are productive (well, most of us anyway). We produce more than we consume.

    It's no accident that as the world population has ballooned, so has our standard of living.

    To think of the world in terms of finite resources to be shared among more and more people is flawed in that you don't consider the fact that production requires people

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    But that is the point. You don't have a natural right to do so. It is dependent on society recognizing those things as rights. Anything/everything you do affects others, even living. In living, you use resources that means less resources for others. The reason that you are able to live is because either a) society recognizes you have a right to use the resources too or b) you are able to defend the resources you are using against those who would take them away.
    Who is "society?"

    I believe society is an abstraction, and the concept of "society" doesn't have a singular consciousness

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    i am sorry you and your understanding of rights, in america no person has the RIGHT to food, water or shelter, those things have to be created.
    location and acceptance matter now?

  4. #1054
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Who is "society?"

    I believe society is an abstraction, and the concept of "society" doesn't have a singular consciousness
    As are rights unless referring to rights in a legal standpoint which would make them relative to each society.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    You're fundamentally incorrect. Human beings are productive (well, most of us anyway). We produce more than we consume.

    It's no accident that as the world population has ballooned, so has our standard of living.

    To think of the world in terms of finite resources to be shared among more and more people is flawed in that you don't consider the fact that production requires people
    I am correct. We use many more resources than we produce. Making new things for ourselves or to better our lives does not increase the overall resources on our planet. In fact it does just the opposite, expends those resources.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    You are failing to grasp that you cannot claim that we have natural rights because our laws say we do. That is convoluted logic.
    Exactly. The same could be said for offering a law which mentions GOD and saying that proves GOD exists. Pretending that the Declaration or some other document or law was written by people who believed in something does NOT make that belief real in the first place. Its still a belief no matter how you cut it.
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by blarg View Post
    location and acceptance matter now?
    you need to do a lot of reading like others on the forum about our founding and the law.

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    very true!

    i am just pointing at to those who say that if a state were to leave the union it violates the constitution, and it does not according to the actions of congress.
    and, you've made your point well. Now, let's examine this issue. It appears to be simply an academic issue, as no state has actually tried to secede or even discussed secession, since about 1864. At that time, the issue was slavery.

    Now, what issue today is divisive enough to spark an attempt at secession? If it did, what would be the response of the federal government?

    Issue of 1864: the Emancipation Proclamation (executive order?)
    Issues of today that could be divisive enough to spark secession: (fill in the blank)
    Its an unbelievably complex subject. Nobody knew health care could be so complicated. Donald Trump



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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    and, you've made your point well. Now, let's examine this issue. It appears to be simply an academic issue, as no state has actually tried to secede or even discussed secession, since about 1864. At that time, the issue was slavery.

    Now, what issue today is divisive enough to spark an attempt at secession? If it did, what would be the response of the federal government?

    Issue of 1864: the Emancipation Proclamation (executive order?)
    Issues of today that could be divisive enough to spark secession: (fill in the blank)
    today it would have to be a total disregard for constitutional law, the federal government taking over parts of states, taking away rights of the people, killing americans, the federal government making demands of states to do or not do things, which would be a rightful power of state to decide and not the federal government.

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    My guess is the Second Amendment.

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