View Poll Results: Would you support the decision of Texas to peacefully and democratically secede, if voted upon

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  • Yes

    69 51.49%
  • No

    61 45.52%
  • Bumbershoot

    4 2.99%
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Thread: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

  1. #1041
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    If I can do something and it doesn't act upon you or your property is there a reason I don't have a right to it?
    But that is the point. You don't have a natural right to do so. It is dependent on society recognizing those things as rights. Anything/everything you do affects others, even living. In living, you use resources that means less resources for others. The reason that you are able to live is because either a) society recognizes you have a right to use the resources too or b) you are able to defend the resources you are using against those who would take them away.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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  2. #1042
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    ..you tell me i am wrong, and i have proved legal information........NOW its your turn, you prove legal information which proves i am wrong!

    now i already now you cannot do it.....so stop with your show....its tiring
    The very fact that you are using legal information proves you wrong. Legality is completely dependent on recognition within the law of the society you live in. It is subjective, and therefore could not be a "natural right".
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  3. #1043
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    The very fact that you are using legal information proves you wrong. Legality is completely dependent on recognition within the law of the society you live in. It is subjective, and therefore could not be a "natural right".
    i asked you to show me legal information proving me wrong....do it...dont just say it........do it now


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  4. #1044
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    i asked you to show me legal information proving me wrong....do it...dont just say it........do it now
    You are failing to grasp that you cannot claim that we have natural rights because our laws say we do. That is convoluted logic.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  5. #1045
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    You are failing to grasp that you cannot claim that we have natural rights because our laws say we do. That is convoluted logic.
    ..so you going to say you cant claim we have natural rights...because of the law .......which SAYS ITS FACT.....

    but you are going to say, no we don't have natural rights .....BECAUSE YOU SAY SO..

    when you can produce more then your own personal words, come talk to me.


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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    But that is the point. You don't have a natural right to do so. It is dependent on society recognizing those things as rights. Anything/everything you do affects others, even living. In living, you use resources that means less resources for others. The reason that you are able to live is because either a) society recognizes you have a right to use the resources too or b) you are able to defend the resources you are using against those who would take them away.
    Hmm. You know, I don't really care for you changing my argument to make your point. I said "act upon" for a reason and that reason is because that is what is necessary for the action in question to not be your right to do. The word affect is not a synonym of act and I didn't use it for the very reason that someone would say that everyone affects others by existing.

  7. #1047
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Hmm. You know, I don't really care for you changing my argument to make your point. I said "act upon" for a reason and that reason is because that is what is necessary for the action in question to not be your right to do. The word affect is not a synonym of act and I didn't use it for the very reason that someone would say that everyone affects others by existing.
    You are acting upon the resources, using them up by your existing. What gives you the right to do that? What prevents others from taking away your life so that they can live or live "better"/longer?
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  8. #1048
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    ..so you going to say you cant claim we have natural rights...because of the law .......which SAYS ITS FACT.....

    but you are going to say, no we don't have natural rights .....BECAUSE YOU SAY SO..

    when you can produce more then your own personal words, come talk to me.
    You are saying we do have natural rights because you say we do. That doesn't make it true. Even the "law" saying we do doesn't make it true.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  9. #1049
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    You are acting upon the resources, using them up by your existing. What gives you the right to do that? What prevents others from taking away your life so that they can live or live "better"/longer?
    I'm using up resources that I acquired through free means free any aggression on anyone else. Locke went over this in his acorn example:

    "He that is nourished by the acorns he picked up under an oak, or the apples he gathered from the trees in the wood, has certainly appropriated them to himself. Nobody can deny but the nourishment is his. I ask then, when did they begin to be his? When he digested? or when he ate? or when he boiled? or when he brought them home? or when he picked them up? And ’tis plain, if the first gathering made them not his, nothing else could. That labour put a distinction between them and common. That added something to them more than Nature, the common mother of all, had done, and so they became his private right. And will any one say he had no right to those acorns or apples he thus appropriated because he had not the consent of all mankind to make them his? Was it a robbery thus to assume to himself what belonged to all in common? If such a consent as that was necessary, man had starved, notwithstanding the plenty God had given him. ... Thus, the grass my horse has bit, the turfs my servant has cut, and the ore I have digged in my place, where I have a right to them in common with others, become my property without the assignation or consent of any body. The labour that was mine, removing them out of that common state they were in, hath fixed my property in them.

    By making an explicit consent of every commoner necessary to any one’s appropriating to himself any part of what is given in common, children or servants could not cut the meat which their father or master had provided for them in common without assigning to every one his peculiar part. Though the water running in the fountain be every one’s, yet who can doubt but that in the pitcher is his only who drew it out? His labour hath taken it out of the hands of Nature where it was common... and hath thereby appropriated it to himself.

    Thus the law of reason makes the deer that Indian’s who killed it; ’tis allowed to be his goods who hath bestowed his labour upon it, though, before, it was the common right of every one. And amongst those who are counted the civilized part of mankind... this original law of nature for the beginning of property, in what was before common, still takes place, and by virtue thereof, what fish any one catches in the ocean, that great and still remaining common of mankind; or what ambergris any one takes up here is by the labour that removes it out of that common state nature left it in, made his property who takes that pains about it." - John Locke

  10. #1050
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    You are saying we do have natural rights because you say we do. That doesn't make it true. Even the "law" saying we do doesn't make it true.
    the law, the founding principles of america, the founders themselves, civilizations which had natural law and we ourselves followed after......says we do

    according to you.. you saying we don't, means we don't.


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