View Poll Results: Would you support the decision of Texas to peacefully and democratically secede, if voted upon

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  • Yes

    69 51.49%
  • No

    61 45.52%
  • Bumbershoot

    4 2.99%
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Thread: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

  1. #1031
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    i am sorry you and your understanding of rights, in america no person has the RIGHT to food, water or shelter, those things have to be created.
    The concept of natural rights also required someone to conceive of it.
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    The concept of natural rights also required someone to conceive of it.
    sorry no, natural rights follow what is natural to the body.

    they are not rights that anyone just thinks up.

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    sorry no, natural rights follow what is natural to the body.

    they are not rights that anyone just thinks up.
    Yes they are. You are talking about abilities, not rights.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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  4. #1034
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    sorry no, natural rights follow what is natural to the body.

    they are not rights that anyone just thinks up.
    If a person is denied food to eat, that person will eventually die of starvation.

    If a person is denied water to drink, that person will eventually die of dehydration.

    If a person is denied shelter, that person could die from exposure to the elements.

    If the human body is affected by hunger and thirst, and needs protection from the elements, how can food, water, and shelter not possibly be natural rights.
    "If you can't stand the way this place is, Take yourself to higher places!"
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Yes they are. You are talking about abilities, not rights.
    If I can do something and it doesn't act upon you or your property is there a reason I don't have a right to it?

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    If a person is denied food to eat, that person will eventually die of starvation.

    If a person is denied water to drink, that person will eventually die of dehydration.

    If a person is denied shelter, that person could die from exposure to the elements.

    If the human body is affected by hunger and thirst, and needs protection from the elements, how can food, water, and shelter not possibly be natural rights.
    Those are natural consequences of not having needed resources, not rights. If you can acquire the food, water and shelter without aggressing on anyone else then you have a right to whatever you acquired, otherwise you don't. For example, if you steal from someone in order to buy food then your claims are forfeit, but if you trade for food or grow the food then your claims are justified and you have a right to it.

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Yes they are. You are talking about abilities, not rights.
    the ability of people to perform actions /conduct is a right.

    Unwritten Law

    Unwritten rules, principles, and norms that have the effect and force of law though they have not been formally enacted by the government.

    Most laws in America are written. The U.S. Code, the Code of Federal Regulations, and the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure are three examples of written laws that are frequently cited in federal court. Each state has a similar body of written laws. By contrast, unwritten law consists of those customs, traditions, practices, usages, and other maxims <--------self evident truths........... of human conduct <-------------natural rights.........that the government recognized ,<------------recognized in the constitution................and enforced<---------------by positive law/statute.

    Unwritten law is most commonly found in primitive societies where illiteracy is prevalent. Because many residents in such societies cannot read or write, there is little point in publishing written laws to govern their conduct. Instead, societal disputes in primitive societies are resolved informally, through appeal to unwritten maxims of fairness or popularly accepted modes of behavior. Litigants present their claims orally in most primitive societies, and judges announce their decisions in the same fashion. The governing body in primitive societies typically enforces the useful traditions that are widely practiced in the community, while those practices that are novel or harmful fall into disuse or are discouraged.

    Much of International Law is a form of primitive unwritten law. For centuries the Rules of War governing hostilities between belligerents consisted of a body of unwritten law. While some of these rules have been codified by international bodies such as the United Nations, many have not. For example, retaliatory reprisals against acts of Terrorism by a foreign government are still governed by unwritten customs in the international community. Each nation also retains discretion in formulating a response to the aggressive acts of a neighboring state.

    In the United States, unwritten law takes on a variety of forms. In Constitutional Law the Supreme Court has ruled that the due process clause of the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments to the U.S. Constitution protects the right to privacy even though the word privacy is not mentioned in the written text of the Constitution. In Commercial Law the Uniform Commercial Code permits merchants to resolve legal disputes by introducing evidence of unwritten customs, practices, and usages that others in the same trade generally follow. The entire body of Common Law, comprising cases decided by judges on matters relating to torts and contracts, among other things, is said to reflect unwritten standards that have evolved over time. In each case, however, once a court, legislature, or other government body formally adopts a standard, principle, or Maxim in writing, it ceases to be an unwritten law.

    unwritten law legal definition of unwritten law

    Unwritten law refers to the law based upon custom, usage, and judicial decisions. It is distinguished from the enactments of a legislature, orders or decrees in writing. Although an unwritten law is not enacted in the form of statute or ordinance, it has got legal sanction. An unwritten law need not be expressly evidenced in court decisions, but may be collected, gathered or implied there from under statute.

    In In re Estate of Spoya, 129 Mont. 83 (Mont. 1955), the court held that unwritten law is the law not promulgated and recorded, but which is, nevertheless, observed and administered in the courts of the country. It has no certain repository, but is collected from the reports of the decisions of the courts and treatises of learned men.

    Unwritten Law Law & Legal Definition


    https://lawreview.uchicago.edu/sites.../03_Nelson.pdf

    State and Federal Models of the Interaction between Statutes and Unwritten Law
    Last edited by Master PO; 05-18-15 at 06:51 PM.

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    If a person is denied food to eat, that person will eventually die of starvation.

    If a person is denied water to drink, that person will eventually die of dehydration.

    If a person is denied shelter, that person could die from exposure to the elements.

    If the human body is affected by hunger and thirst, and needs protection from the elements, how can food, water, and shelter not possibly be natural rights.
    you have natural right/ ability to seek those commodities, you don't have a right to have them handed to you on a sliver platter
    Last edited by Master PO; 05-18-15 at 06:48 PM.

  9. #1039
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    the ability of people to perform actions /conduct is a right.

    Unwritten Law

    Unwritten rules, principles, and norms that have the effect and force of law though they have not been formally enacted by the government.

    Most laws in America are written. The U.S. Code, the Code of Federal Regulations, and the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure are three examples of written laws that are frequently cited in federal court. Each state has a similar body of written laws. By contrast, unwritten law consists of those customs, traditions, practices, usages, and other maxims <--------self evident truths........... of human conduct <-------------natural rights.........that the government recognized ,<------------recognized in the constitution................and enforced<---------------by positive law/statute.

    Unwritten law is most commonly found in primitive societies where illiteracy is prevalent. Because many residents in such societies cannot read or write, there is little point in publishing written laws to govern their conduct. Instead, societal disputes in primitive societies are resolved informally, through appeal to unwritten maxims of fairness or popularly accepted modes of behavior. Litigants present their claims orally in most primitive societies, and judges announce their decisions in the same fashion. The governing body in primitive societies typically enforces the useful traditions that are widely practiced in the community, while those practices that are novel or harmful fall into disuse or are discouraged.

    Much of International Law is a form of primitive unwritten law. For centuries the Rules of War governing hostilities between belligerents consisted of a body of unwritten law. While some of these rules have been codified by international bodies such as the United Nations, many have not. For example, retaliatory reprisals against acts of Terrorism by a foreign government are still governed by unwritten customs in the international community. Each nation also retains discretion in formulating a response to the aggressive acts of a neighboring state.

    In the United States, unwritten law takes on a variety of forms. In Constitutional Law the Supreme Court has ruled that the due process clause of the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments to the U.S. Constitution protects the right to privacy even though the word privacy is not mentioned in the written text of the Constitution. In Commercial Law the Uniform Commercial Code permits merchants to resolve legal disputes by introducing evidence of unwritten customs, practices, and usages that others in the same trade generally follow. The entire body of Common Law, comprising cases decided by judges on matters relating to torts and contracts, among other things, is said to reflect unwritten standards that have evolved over time. In each case, however, once a court, legislature, or other government body formally adopts a standard, principle, or Maxim in writing, it ceases to be an unwritten law.

    unwritten law legal definition of unwritten law

    Unwritten law refers to the law based upon custom, usage, and judicial decisions. It is distinguished from the enactments of a legislature, orders or decrees in writing. Although an unwritten law is not enacted in the form of statute or ordinance, it has got legal sanction. An unwritten law need not be expressly evidenced in court decisions, but may be collected, gathered or implied there from under statute.

    In In re Estate of Spoya, 129 Mont. 83 (Mont. 1955), the court held that unwritten law is the law not promulgated and recorded, but which is, nevertheless, observed and administered in the courts of the country. It has no certain repository, but is collected from the reports of the decisions of the courts and treatises of learned men.

    Unwritten Law Law & Legal Definition


    https://lawreview.uchicago.edu/sites.../03_Nelson.pdf

    State and Federal Models of the Interaction between Statutes and Unwritten Law
    You keep using the very things that prove you wrong. Rights come from government, from societies because people recognize them, because people grant them as what they see as being rights. A right to life does not mean that you are alive, living. It means that someone cannot take your life from you or even attempt to do so without either a) valid legal justification or b) facing consequences from someone else, most likely society.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    You keep using the very things that prove you wrong. Rights come from government, from societies because people recognize them, because people grant them as what they see as being rights. A right to life does not mean that you are alive, living. It means that someone cannot take your life from you or even attempt to do so without either a) valid legal justification or b) facing consequences from someone else, most likely society.
    ..you tell me i am wrong, and i have proved legal information........NOW its your turn, you prove legal information which proves i am wrong!

    now i already know you cannot do it.....so stop with your show....its tiring

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