View Poll Results: Would you support the decision of Texas to peacefully and democratically secede, if voted upon

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  • Yes

    69 51.49%
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    61 45.52%
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    4 2.99%
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Thread: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

  1. #1021
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Yes, there would be protest and outrage. There could be military action as well, but the federal government holds all of the power in that regard, so there wouldn't be a civil war again.

    That's because might makes right, or at least ensures that there wouldn't be a war when might is so one sided.

    But, the fact of the matter is that we did fight a civil war over that very issue, and the result was that the forces against secession won. So, doesn't that settle the matter?

    Or was the civil war so long ago that it no longer matters?
    disagree, the states are equal now, there is no longer two different types of economies, as soon as the federal government moves against states, our enemies on the outside will see this and move against america because we have made many enemies over the last 60 years.

    so are you saying that the constitutions of the states today have parts of them which are invalid?..because of a war, from 1861 to 1865?

    states have come into the union after that war, and part of there constitution was that the people have a right to self determination...and THE U.S. FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, AGREED TO THAT when they created u.s. enabling laws for the states when they entered.

    the u.s. federal government would be violating ........u.s. federal law.

  2. #1022
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    disagree, the states are equal now, there is no longer two different types of economies, as soon as the federal government moves against states, our enemies on the outside will see this and move against america because we have made many enemies over the last 60 years.

    so are you saying that the constitutions of the states today have parts of them which are invalid?..because of a war, from 1861 to 1865?

    states have come into the union after that war, and part of there constitution was that the people have a right to self determination...and THE U.S. FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, AGREED TO THAT when they created u.s. enabling laws for the states when they entered.

    the u.s. federal government would be violating ........u.s. federal law.
    The US civil war was fought to preserve the union. The southern states seceded over the issue of slavery, and the northern states fought to prevent them from leaving the union.

    So, if the states have constitutional clauses regarding their ability to secede, then we do have an interesting conundrum. Can they secede because their constitutions say so? Or, can they not because the civil war settled the issue of secession?

    I'd agree that the people have the right of self determination, including the right to leave the union if they so choose, but do they really have that right? I think the issue would have to be tested by one or more states once again attempting to secede.

    But, that's not too likely, is it?
    "Those were lies, pure and simple."

  3. #1023
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    The US civil war was fought to preserve the union. The southern states seceded over the issue of slavery, and the northern states fought to prevent them from leaving the union.

    So, if the states have constitutional clauses regarding their ability to secede, then we do have an interesting conundrum. Can they secede because their constitutions say so? Or, can they not because the civil war settled the issue of secession?

    I'd agree that the people have the right of self determination, including the right to leave the union if they so choose, but do they really have that right? I think the issue would have to be tested by one or more states once again attempting to secede.

    But, that's not too likely, is it?
    some states left for slavery, some like Texas left because northern states and the federal government were violating federal law, constitutional law, harassing southern citizens, stealing southern property, among other things.

    i shall give an example of 1 state.....on self detemination

    in 1889 the state of N.Dakota entered the union and its constitution was accepted by the u.s. federal government via a u.s. enabling law.

    that u.s. enabling law states that the N. Dakota Constitution was in no way repugnant the federal constitution or the principles of the DOI.

    so congress by its own vote, voted that the N.Dakota constitution and what it contained in it, was not in violation to constitutional law

    part of that state constitution was this:

    Section 2. All political power is inherent in the people. Government is instituted for the protection, security and benefit of the people, and they have a right to alter or reform the same whenever the public good may require.

    so the federal government by vote, agreed via law that the people of the state of N. Dakota have a right to alter or reform there government.



    all of the states which left the union before the war, did it by state conventions, or referendum of the people, the states governments took no lone actions, but by what the people of the states wanted.
    Last edited by Master PO; 05-18-15 at 04:04 PM.

  4. #1024
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Enabling Act



    AN ACT to provide for the division of Dakota into two States and to enable the people of North Dakota, South Dakota, Montana, and Washington to form constitutions and State governments and to be admitted into the Union on an equal footing with the original States, and to make donations of public lands to such States.

    (Approved February 22, 1889.) [25 U.S. Statutes at Large, c 180 p 676.]

    [President's proclamation declaring Washington a state: 26 St. at Large, Proclamations, p 10, Nov. 11, 1889.]


    SEC. 4. That the delegates to the conventions elected as provided for in this act shall meet at the seat of government of each of said Territories, except the delegates elected in South Dakota, who shall meet at the city of Sioux Falls, on the fourth day of July, eighteen hundred and eighty-nine, and, after organization, shall declare, on behalf of the people of said proposed States, that they adopt the Constitution of the United States; whereupon the said conventions shall be, and are hereby, authorized to form constitutions and States governments for said proposed states, respectively. The constitutions shall be republican in form, and make no distinction in civil or political rights on account of race or color, except as to Indians not taxed, and not be repugnant to the Constitution of the United States and the principles of the Declaration of Independence. And said conventions shall provide, by ordinances irrevocable without the consent of the United States and the people of said States:

    First. That perfect toleration of religious sentiment shall be secured and that no inhabitant of said States shall ever be molested in person or property on account of his or her mode of religious worship


    State History Enabling Act[/QUOTE]


    Montana constitution:

    Section 2. SELF-GOVERNMENT. The people have the exclusive right of governing themselves as a free, sovereign, and independent state. They may alter or abolish the constitution and form of government whenever they deem it necessary.
    Last edited by Master PO; 05-18-15 at 04:10 PM.

  5. #1025
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    some states left for slavery, some like Texas left because northern states and the federal government were violating federal law, constitutional law, harassing southern citizens, stealing southern property, among other things.

    i shall give an example of 1 state.....on self detemination

    in 1889 the state of N.Dakota entered the union and its constitution was accepted by the u.s. federal government via a u.s. enabling law.

    that u.s. enabling law states that the N. Dakota Constitution was in no way repugnant the federal constitution or the principles of the DOI.

    so congress by its own vote, voted that the N.Dakota constitution and what it contained in it, was not in violation to constitutional law

    part of that state constitution was this:

    Section 2. All political power is inherent in the people. Government is instituted for the protection, security and benefit of the people, and they have a right to alter or reform the same whenever the public good may require.

    so the federal government by vote, agreed via law that the people of the state of N. Dakota have a right to alter or reform there government.



    all of the states which left the union before the war, did it by state conventions, or referendum of the people, the states governments took no lone actions, but by what the people of the states wanted.
    OK, and now the real and true test would be to have one or more states actually vote to secede from the union once again, then we'll see if the feds once again assert their power to preserve the union.

    Not that such a thing is likely any time soon, but it could happen.
    "Those were lies, pure and simple."

  6. #1026
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    OK, and now the real and true test would be to have one or more states actually vote to secede from the union once again, then we'll see if the feds once again assert their power to preserve the union.

    Not that such a thing is likely any time soon, but it could happen.
    what i stated was the u.s.federal government would be violating its very own enabling law.

    how can the right of self determination of the people, say of Montana be outside of the laws of the u.s. since the u.s. federal government voted and stated the rights to self determination was not, when it passed the enabling law for the state of Montana.

    it would be the u.s.federal government violating the law and rights of people if they tried to stop Montana.....according to its very own law.

  7. #1027
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    what i stated was the u.s.federal government would be violating its very own enabling law.

    how can the right of self determination of the people, say of Montana be outside of the laws of the u.s. since the u.s. federal government voted and stated the rights to self determination was not, when it passed the enabling law for the state of Montana.

    it would be the u.s.federal government violating the law and rights of people if they tried to stop Montana.....according to its very own law.
    The federal government violates the Constitution all the time. Why would violating enabling laws be a problem?
    "Those were lies, pure and simple."

  8. #1028
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    The federal government violates the Constitution all the time. Why would violating enabling laws be a problem?
    very true!

    i am just pointing at to those who say that if a state were to leave the union it violates the constitution, and it does not according to the actions of congress.

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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    you have no right to food water shelter in america, because they are commodities and have to be created by someone.......do you think you have a right to steal property of the people?

    you do not understand your rights at all.
    you see popularly and power do determine what a right is and people do come up with ones you don't like

  10. #1030
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    Re: Would you support the right of Texas to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by blarg View Post
    you see popularly and power do determine what a right is and people do come up with ones you don't like
    i am sorry you and your understanding of rights, in america no person has the RIGHT to food, water or shelter, those things have to be created.

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