View Poll Results: Knowledge or wealth

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  • Ignorant but wealthy

    12 44.44%
  • Poor but understanding the truth

    15 55.56%
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Thread: Knowledge or wealth

  1. #71
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    Re: Knowledge or wealth

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Like I said to someone else, a person who has been subjected to waterboarding my feel some relief when such conditions are removed. However, that relief cannot be said to be substantial happiness. It is merely relief from a particular type of suffering. The person will be subjected to unpleasant conditions in other ways.
    Everyone poor or rich has had some bad times.The difference is that the rich person has money to help him through those hard times.Money pays the bills and pays for things to be repaired or replaced.If you are rich then those things are easy.If you are poor then those things are a lot harder.Being wealthy means you can send your kids to the best schools.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  2. #72
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    Re: Knowledge or wealth

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Everyone poor or rich has had some bad times.The difference is that the rich person has money to help him through those hard times.Money pays the bills and pays for things to be repaired or replaced.If you are rich then those things are easy.If you are poor then those things are a lot harder.Being wealthy means you can send your kids to the best schools.
    Aside from basic necessities, money doesn't make anyone happy or fulfilled, it just pacifies the wants, offers some artificial gratification. What we want and want we need isn't the same. Society tells us what we think we need, and unless we dig deep down to find out what really brings joy, no thing, no amount of money, no toy, no change, can ever fill that void.

  3. #73
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    Re: Knowledge or wealth

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Everyone poor or rich has had some bad times.The difference is that the rich person has money to help him through those hard times.Money pays the bills and pays for things to be repaired or replaced.If you are rich then those things are easy.If you are poor then those things are a lot harder.Being wealthy means you can send your kids to the best schools.
    The point jamesrage is that regardless of whether one is wealthy or not, he will experience various types of mundane happiness and distress. However, such experiences are transient and therefore the wise have concluded that they are illusory in nature. What is constant through these types of experiences is the phenomenon of sentience itself. The is because the soul, the atma is of the nature of a superior, transcendental spiritual potency that has come from the Supreme atma, the Paramatma, or God. The mundane, material energy is also an energy of God, but it is of an inferior nature and produces various types of illusory, mundane experiences for those who prefer those types of experiences. However, thoughtful and intelligent persons come to understand that these types of experiences do not give satisfaction, and therefore they turn their attention towards the substantial happiness that can be obtained through activity that is supported by the superior, transcendental, spiritual energy of God. These experiences are eternal in nature, like the atma, and it is there that real substantial happiness is to be found.

  4. #74
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    Re: Knowledge or wealth

    Of course, we need a good definition of terms .. that all can agree to .. which is all but impossible ..
    IMO, "ignorant" means uneducated, more so than simply stupid ..
    "Knowing the truth" , in whose opinion ? .. this is so open, we have been here on this orb for 6,000 years and are not even close to knowing the truth ..
    The old adage "a fool and his money are soon parted" is so very true .

  5. #75
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    Re: Knowledge or wealth

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    "Knowing the truth" , in whose opinion ?
    As such questions have been exhaustively examined, I would suggest an excellent place to start are the Vedanta Sutras of the great sage Vyasa. For example the first verse says

    athato brahma jijnasa

    This translates into English as

    Now is the time to inquire about the Absolute Truth

    So here at the very beginning Vyasa makes it clear what he means to discuss. There are so many forms of life, and they are all associated with a various types of intelligence. However, the human form of life is very special in that it has been endowed with the type of intelligence that makes such inquires possible. Dogs and cats do not have such discussions. But a human being should ask questions like who am I, where have I come from, and what is the purpose of life. Indeed this is what distinguishes the human species from other animals. The Absolute Truth is denoted in this passage by the Sanskrit term Brahman.

    Now various Vedic scholars have commented on the Vedanta Sutras, but the great Ramanuja in his commentary on this verse has stated

    The word 'Brahman' denotes the hightest Person (purushottama), who is essentially free from all imperfections and possesses numberless classes of auspicious qualities of unsurpassable excellence. The term 'Brahman' is applied to any things which possess the quality of greatness (brihattva, from the root 'brih'); but primarily denotes that which possesses greatness, of essential nature as well as of qualities, in unlimited fullness; and such is only the Lord of all. Hence the word 'Brahman' primarily denotes him alone, and in a secondary derivative sense only those things which possess some small part of the Lord's qualities; for it would be improper to assume several meanings for the word (so that it would denote primarily or directly more than one thing). The case is analogous to that of the term 'bhagavat 1.' The Lord only is enquired into, for the sake of immortality, by all those who are afflicted with the triad of pain. Hence the Lord of all is that Brahman which, according to the Sūtra, constitutes the object of enquiry.
    Here Srila Ramanuja Acharya makes it very clear, that Brahman refers to the Supreme Person, or God, who is free from imperfection and possesses the all knowledge, all wealth, all fame, all beauty, all power, and all renunciation.

    The second verse goes

    janmady asya yatah

    Translated into English

    That from which everything is coming

    The word "janmadi" means the origin, "asya" means everything, and "yatah" means from which. So having established in the first verse the object of inquiry, Vyasa states that the Absolute Truth, Brahman, the Supreme Person, God is that from whom everything is coming.

    Again to quote the great Ramanuja

    The expression 'the origin', &c., means 'creation, subsistence, and reabsorption'. The 'this' (in 'of this') denotes this entire world with its manifold wonderful arrangements, not to be fathomed by thought, and comprising within itself the aggregate of living souls from Brahmā down to blades of grass, all of which experience the fruits (of their former actions) in definite places and at definite times. 'That from which,' i.e. that highest Person who is the ruler of all; whose nature is antagonistic to all evil; whose purposes come true; who possesses infinite auspicious qualities, such as knowledge, blessedness, and so on; who is omniscient, omnipotent, supremely merciful; from whom the creation, subsistence, and reabsorption of this world proceed--he is Brahman: such is the meaning of the Sūtra.
    So that's a start.

  6. #76
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    Re: Knowledge or wealth

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    Of course, we need a good definition of terms .. that all can agree to .. which is all but impossible ..
    IMO, "ignorant" means uneducated, more so than simply stupid ..
    "Knowing the truth" , in whose opinion ? .. this is so open, we have been here on this orb for 6,000 years and are not even close to knowing the truth ..
    The old adage "a fool and his money are soon parted" is so very true .
    Not necessarily, both of those terms mean different things to each person....even that is illuminating.
    "Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free."

    "No, you'll be *a* judge of that, just like everyone else who reads it."
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  7. #77
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    Re: Knowledge or wealth

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    If you had to choose between being ignorant and wealthy or being poor but understanding the truth, which would you choose?
    I'd take knowledge over wealth.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  8. #78
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    Re: Knowledge or wealth

    I'd pick c)life experience.

  9. #79
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    Re: Knowledge or wealth

    I am very grateful that we are not limited to those two options. There is no shame in being ignorant because that is a correctable condition. So I think I would take the money and then use it to obtain knowledge. Of course those who have knowledge are unlikely to remain poor unless they choose to remain poor, but I would think having the financial resources to begin with would be more efficient and a lot faster. (Acknowledging that approaching it from this angle violates the philosophical point of the thread.)
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  10. #80
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    Re: Knowledge or wealth

    I made exactly that choice several years ago. I chose knowledge. I gave up my lucrative corporate career to get back into academics, making about 1/10th what I was making. I would give up even more than that. Money, in a very real sense, complicates and confuses people like nothing else. A certain amount is necessary for basic survival plus a little more. But most people will do things they know to be wrong and invent all sorts of justifications for doing so, to get more money than they need. It's a very strange thing.

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