View Poll Results: Should Confederate Memorial Day(s) exist?

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  • Yes

    6 18.75%
  • No

    24 75.00%
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    2 6.25%
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Thread: Should Confederate Memorial Day(s) exist?

  1. #61
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    Re: Should Confederate Memorial Day(s) exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeoVlaming View Post
    So you tend to agree with those that see this as a war between two different nations and the US "conquered" and "annexed" another country in this conflict?
    Nope. I'm saying that it's their perspective on the issue which should stop anyone within the United States from celebrating it. We don't celebrate traitors, or people who wage fights against the US government.

    You're entitled to your opinion, but I believe relatively few really serious people want to endorse the Southern cause in such an explicit way.
    You're welcome to try and read through the thread so you don't take my words out of context.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  2. #62
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    Re: Should Confederate Memorial Day(s) exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Vets... who fought against the US? WHO? WHEN? What holiday? Let me know when it's "Empire of Japan's Veterans Day" or "Nazi Germany's Veterans Days". I'd like to see who the hell is there other than you.
    we don't have holidays, but we frequently send dignitaries to foreign veterans events in official capacities (with your federal dollars) until recently (due to a very bad decision by Obama) we sent ambassadors to Russia's V-E day celebrations (which honors their WW2 vets, and the regime they fought for cannot in anyway be compared to the south) we sent officials, as did the British Royal Navy to the funeral of Admiral Donitz (commander of the Kreigsmarine, and second Fuhrer of the Third Reich after Hitlers suicide) etc etc etc. to the best of my knowledge our ambassador to japan goes to that silly peacenik thing they do in Hiroshima every year.

    If they decided to secede and put a new government in a place, then they did in fact fight to overthrow the US government. Unless of course you find the creation of a new government as anything other than an overthrow.
    not really, unless you call our country the product of an overthrow, in which case we can sympathize.



    That's great. I've also heard first hand accounts of alien abductions. It's still a myth.




    ... What... was in the best interest of the country? That's a personal perspective. What I do know is that it's treason to fight against the armed forces of the US government. If you find differently, may I suggest you refer your arguments to all of the American Jidahis we've bombed over in Yemen and Pakistan? I'm sure they'd love to use your arguments. If you feel differently, may I suggest you try and incite your own personal rebellion against the United States and its territories? Tell us how it works out and what the charges are.
    I never advocated such. all of my distant relatives in the civil war fought for the North. not a huge fan of neo confederatism either, but the reality is, there is nothing wrong with honoring war dead.
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  3. #63
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    Re: Should Confederate Memorial Day(s) exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Nope. I'm saying that it's their perspective on the issue which should stop anyone within the United States from celebrating it. We don't celebrate traitors, or people who wage fights against the US government.



    You're welcome to try and read through the thread so you don't take my words out of context.
    You should try to think through what you write.

  4. #64
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    Re: Should Confederate Memorial Day(s) exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeoVlaming View Post
    You should try to think through what you write.
    I did. You took it out of context.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  5. #65
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    Re: Should Confederate Memorial Day(s) exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    we don't have holidays,
    So we don't celebrate veterans who have fought against the US? Good.

    but we frequently send dignitaries to foreign veterans events in official capacities (with your federal dollars) until recently (due to a very bad decision by Obama) we sent ambassadors to Russia's V-E day celebrations (which honors their WW2 vets, and the regime they fought for cannot in anyway be compared to the south) we sent officials, as did the British Royal Navy to the funeral of Admiral Donitz (commander of the Kreigsmarine, and second Fuhrer of the Third Reich after Hitlers suicide) etc etc etc.
    So your 'evidence' that we celebrate soldiers who fought against the US is... Russia... an Ally in WWII, and a guy who died 35 years ago? Are you trying to waste my time?

    to the best of my knowledge our ambassador to japan goes to that silly peacenik thing they do in Hiroshima every year.
    Yep, that is his role as an ambassador in an allied nation. It doesn't mean the US government is celebrating their veterans. I'm answering this not knowing what "celebration" you're even referring to just the fact that it's an ambassador in a country that has been an ally of the US for the last 70 years.

    not really, unless you call our country the product of an overthrow, in which case we can sympathize.
    Ummm... our country is the product of an overthrow. What the hell do you think it was? Do you think we told the British "Hey guys, can you please leave us to our own devices forever? K thanks!". No. We overthrew British rule and established a new government. Pretty sure we had a war on the matter too somewhere in that story.



    I never advocated such. all of my distant relatives in the civil war fought for the North. not a huge fan of neo confederatism either, but the reality is, there is nothing wrong with honoring war dead.
    Nope, nothing wrong with it as long as they weren't trying to overthrow the US government, create a new government in its place, and saw themselves as citizens of a new nation.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  6. #66
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    Re: Should Confederate Memorial Day(s) exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by CHuDWah View Post
    Really? From your own cite:



    and



    Granted, there were few battles and fewer Union victories in Texas. Nevertheless, the state still surrendered after wholesale desertion and looting by its troops (also detailed in your cite).

    So...Texas wins some battles and loses the war. Nope, it's Texas (and the rest of the Confederacy) with the butthurt.
    Being blockaded means ships were parked outside Galviston preventing any shipments out...not the same as being occupied.

    They tried to occupy Galviston, but were given the ole Texas boot.

    Texas won nearly every battle it fought. It surrendered because everyone else already had...a confederacy of one isn't really a confederacy per se.

  7. #67
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    Re: Should Confederate Memorial Day(s) exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    That said, and this is obviously way before any of us were ever born, but it really pisses me off when those "the south will rise again" racist jerkoffs refer to the Civil War as the "War Of Northern Aggression" when THEY fired the first shots.

    And a lot of that was BEFORE Lincoln was inaugurated, BEFORE the Confederate states seceded, and BEFORE Fort Sumter:

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/histor...post1063363907
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  8. #68
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    Re: Should Confederate Memorial Day(s) exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Being blockaded means ships were parked outside Galviston preventing any shipments out
    Actually, they were more concerned with preventing shipments IN


    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    not the same as being occupied.
    Technically, I suppose that's true. But a blockade pretty much controls a port, much the same as an occupation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    They tried to occupy Galviston, but were given the ole Texas boot.
    Did you not read your own cite? Here, let me quote it for you AGAIN, this time with emphasis:

    The U.S. Navy blockaded the principal seaport, Galveston, for four years, and federal infantry occupied the city for three months in late 1862.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Texas won nearly every battle it fought.
    If you mean every battle in which Texas troops were engaged, I'd argue that. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you mean battles fought on Texas soil. And I acknowledged that:

    Quote Originally Posted by CHuDWah View Post
    Granted, there were few battles and fewer Union victories in Texas.
    But I'd also remind you of another quote from your Wikipedia cite:

    A few other cities also fell to Union troops at times during the war, including Port Lavaca, Indianola, and Brownsville.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    It surrendered because everyone else already had...a confederacy of one isn't really a confederacy per se.
    Doesn't matter WHY it surrendered, the point is it DID. Texas (and the rest of the Confederacy) did not
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    win that war and send you running back home with your tails between your legs.
    . Quite the reverse, in fact.
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  9. #69
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    Re: Should Confederate Memorial Day(s) exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Slavery was legal in several union states as well, so is it wrong to have memorials to union soldiers? or soldiers of the American Revolution? or the War of 1812 since we had slavery as a nation in those conflicts?
    The part you are missing is that the war of 1812 was not about preserving the institution of slavery. The states that seceded from the Union did so to preserve the institution of slavery. The reason the south left the union and thus we had a war was they wanted to keep the institution of slavery.
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  10. #70
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    Re: Should Confederate Memorial Day(s) exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    So we should have memorial day for Tories?
    No, I mean really, no.

    If anything we would observe the French soldiers that died fighting for our independence.
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