View Poll Results: Should Confederate Memorial Day(s) exist?

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  • Yes

    6 18.75%
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    24 75.00%
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Thread: Should Confederate Memorial Day(s) exist?

  1. #221
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    Re: Should Confederate Memorial Day(s) exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Unfortunately, Lincoln was assassinated before his plans for reconciliatory reconstruction could be implemented and was largely replaced with Johnson's more retaliatory plans to treat the south as conquered territory and traitors.

    Lincoln had offered a pardon for rebels if they took allegiance to the US Constitution but excluded southern leaders who had left their post to fight against the US...

    Even before the war had ended, Lincoln issued the Proclamation of Amnesty and Reconstruction in 1863, his compassionate policy for dealing with the South. The Proclamation stated that all Southerners could be pardoned and reinstated as U.S. citizens if they took an oath of allegiance to the Constitution and the Union and pledged to abide by emancipation. High Confederate officials, Army and Navy officers, and U.S. judges and congressmen who left their posts to aid the southern rebellion were excluded from this pardon. Lincoln’s Proclamation was called the “10 percent plan”: Once 10 percent of the voting population in any state had taken the oath, a state government could be put in place and the state could be reintegrated into the Union.....

    https://www.apstudynotes.org/us-hist...ruction-plans/

    After the war, carpetbaggers and scallywags descended on the south like vultures and that is how it gained a reputation for corrupt local governments.
    you cant be "reinstated" unless one leaves the state of being.

    the southern states seceded, because they people gave a formal declaration .......as the founders had done.

    they cited their grievances, and exercised their right to alter and abolish the government they had.

    they did not attempt to overthrow the federal government.
    Last edited by Master PO; 05-04-15 at 03:14 AM.

  2. #222
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    Re: Should Confederate Memorial Day(s) exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    you cant be "reinstated" unless one leaves the state of being.

    the southern states seceded, because they people gave a formal declaration .......as the founders had done.

    they cited their grievances, and exercised their right to alter and abolish the government they had.

    they did not attempt to overthrow the federal government.
    From the dictionary:

    Reinstated: restore (someone or something) to their former position or condition.

    A state or person doesn't have to leave the union in order to be restored to their former condition.

    The south was never recognized as a separate sovereign state or nation and their bloody attempt to secede from the union failed.

    Having read both the 1863 and 1865 Proclamations of Amnesty and Reconstruction....no where does it suggest that any state or citizen ever left the union. But it does clearly allude to "acts of treason" and lists certain classes of people that participated in the "rebellion" as exempt from pardon or amnesty. In other words, because of their actions, certain persons lost 'certain rights'....just as criminals do in our justice system today.

    1863 The Proclamation of Amnesty and Reconstruction

    1865 The Proclamation of Amnesty and Reconstruction
    Last edited by Moot; 05-04-15 at 03:11 PM.

  3. #223
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    Re: Should Confederate Memorial Day(s) exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    From the dictionary:

    Reinstated: restore (someone or something) to their former position or condition.

    A state or person doesn't have to leave the union in order to be restored to their former condition.

    The south was never recognized as a separate sovereign state or nation and their bloody attempt to secede from the union failed.

    Having read both the 1863 and 1865 Proclamations of Amnesty and Reconstruction....no where does it suggest that any state or citizen ever left the union. But it does clearly allude to "acts of treason" and lists certain classes of people that participated in the "rebellion" as exempt from pardon or amnesty. In other words, because of their actions, certain persons lost 'certain rights'....just as criminals do in our justice system today.

    1863 The Proclamation of Amnesty and Reconstruction

    1865 The Proclamation of Amnesty and Reconstruction
    Former postion!

    the southern states declared their separation from the union, they created their own government and constitution, and no longer participated in the the union for 5 years.

    again FORMER..

    these acts you have posted were made by the federal government whom the southern states were fighting.

    to levy a war, means to impose a war, the southern states left the union, with only the intention of going their own way.

  4. #224
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    Re: Should Confederate Memorial Day(s) exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    Former postion!

    the southern states declared their separation from the union, they created their own government and constitution, and no longer participated in the the union for 5 years.

    again FORMER..

    these acts you have posted were made by the federal government whom the southern states were fighting.

    to levy a war, means to impose a war, the southern states left the union, with only the intention of going their own way.
    And they tried to leave with a few things that did not belong to them.

    Like fort Sumter.
    "If you can't stand the way this place is, Take yourself to higher places!"
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  5. #225
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    Re: Should Confederate Memorial Day(s) exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    And they tried to leave with a few things that did not belong to them.

    Like fort Sumter.
    they asked the union troops to leave and they refused.

    but the southern states did not impose a war on the federal government because they had no intention over throwing the federal government, that wanted to go their own way.

  6. #226
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    Re: Should Confederate Memorial Day(s) exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    they asked the union troops to leave and they refused.

    but the southern states did not impose a war on the federal government because they had no intention over throwing the federal government, that wanted to go their own way.
    Some of the things the southern states wanted to take with them did not belong to them.
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  7. #227
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    Re: Should Confederate Memorial Day(s) exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    Some of the things the southern states wanted to take with them did not belong to them.
    well explain how the southern states can operate with foreign entities in their states, like federal buildings, forts, shipyards.

    would the colonies leave parts of the British Crown in america?

  8. #228
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    Re: Should Confederate Memorial Day(s) exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    Correct.

    But there are some people who would like to get a rematch. I don't believe that's going to happen.



    The South will not rise again.
    Perhaps that is why they have those civil war reenactments. As far as I know people in other countries don't have reenactments of getting their asses kicked.I could be wrong.Maybe the British reenact the American colonist kicking their ass.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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  9. #229
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    Re: Should Confederate Memorial Day(s) exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Perhaps that is why they have those civil war reenactments. As far as I know people in other countries don't have reenactments of getting their asses kicked.I could be wrong.Maybe the British reenact the American colonist kicking their ass.
    yes there are reenactments of war in Europe, like the Napoleonic War.

    Last edited by Master PO; 05-04-15 at 04:39 PM.

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    Re: Should Confederate Memorial Day(s) exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    Former postion!

    the southern states declared their separation from the union, they created their own government and constitution, and no longer participated in the the union for 5 years.

    again FORMER..

    these acts you have posted were made by the federal government whom the southern states were fighting.

    to levy a war, means to impose a war, the southern states left the union, with only the intention of going their own way.

    If by "going their own way" you mean 'to expand slavery into the new territories' then you'd be right. That was the build up to the Civil War.

    Lincoln considered the southern states as "loyal states that were subverted by traitors.".....

    "...Whereas, a rebellion now exists whereby the loyal state governments of several states have for a long time been subverted, and many persons have committed, and are now guilty of, treason against the United States; and.....<snip>

    "...And still further, that this proclamation is intended to present the people of the states wherein the national authority has been suspended, and loyal state governments have been subverted, a mode in and by which the national authority and loyal state governments may be reŽstablished within said states, or in any of them; and while the mode presented is the best the Executive can suggest, with his present impressions, it must not be understood that no other possible mode would be acceptable....."


    Neither Lincoln or the US government recognized the South's "so-called confederate government" and they always referred to it as a 'rebellion' or 'treason' but never a war. They were very careful not give the South's "so called secession" any legitimacy......

    "The persons excepted from the benefits of the foregoing provisions are all who are, or shall have been, civil or diplomatic officers or agents of the so-called Confederate government; all who have left judicial stations under the United States to aid the rebellion; all who are, or shall have been, military or naval officers of said so-called Confederate government above the rank of colonel in the army or of lieutenant in the navy; all who left seats in the United States congress to aid the rebellion;...<snip>...

    And I do further proclaim, declare, and make known that whenever, in any of the States ....<snip> each having taken the oath aforesaid, and not having since violated it, and being a qualified voter by the election law of the state existing immediately before the so-called act of secession, and excluding all others, shall reestablish a state government which shall be republican, and in nowise contravening said oath, such shall be recognized as the true government of the state, and the state shall receive thereunder the benefits of the constitutional provision which declares that “the United States shall guaranty to every state in this Union a republican form of government, and shall protect each of them against invasion; and on application of the legislature, or the executive, (when the legislature cannot be convened,) against domestic violence......”
    Proclamation of Amnesty and Reconstruction, December 8, 1863

    The federal government won the war that rendered the South's "so called seccession" as null and void.
    Last edited by Moot; 05-04-15 at 04:54 PM.

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