View Poll Results: Should Confederate Memorial Day(s) exist?

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  • Yes

    6 18.75%
  • No

    24 75.00%
  • other (with explanatory reply)

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Thread: Should Confederate Memorial Day(s) exist?

  1. #141
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    Re: Should Confederate Memorial Day(s) exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    Until taken to SCOTUS to rule upon? is that not correct.
    it was stated it was unconstitutional....i stated there is nothing in the constitution about secession...since something is not mentioned in the constitution, it in no way can be a power of the federal government...the USSC has granted the federal government powers the founders never intented for them to have.

  2. #142
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    Re: Should Confederate Memorial Day(s) exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    I understood the war settled that point. In favor of the Union and no right to secede from the Union.
    its funny, since the court says secession is not legal however the founders say it is..may 31st 1787

  3. #143
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    Re: Should Confederate Memorial Day(s) exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    its funny, since the court says secession is not legal however the founders say it is..may 31st 1787
    Where was that stated?
    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    The damage to the black community from all this will be devastating.
    Not only on public perception and reputation, but cops simply won't want to police these neighborhoods anymore.
    The shooter was later found to be white.

  4. #144
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    Re: Should Confederate Memorial Day(s) exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    it was stated it was unconstitutional....i stated there is nothing in the constitution about secession...since something is not mentioned in the constitution, it in no way can be a power of the federal government...the USSC has granted the federal government powers the founders never intented for them to have.
    If there is ever another succession movement, I don't think we will go to war over it. And I do not see another succession movement coming unless the politicians in DC behave so badly that the constitution becomes meaningless. If not for the 22nd amendment to the US constitution, I think we would be very close to a succession movement right now. I don't think this nation could survive a third or fourth Obama term in office. Obama has clearly shown that he has no regard for the separation of powers. And congress is too sheepishly cowed to reign him in.

  5. #145
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    Re: Should Confederate Memorial Day(s) exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    What constitutional right did they have to secede?
    It depends. If Washington DC seriously and chronically crosses the line constitutionally, then given states can declare their statehood agreements null and void. We are 50 United States of America. "United" should not mean involuntary servitude.

  6. #146
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    Re: Should Confederate Memorial Day(s) exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    Where was that stated?
    you have to read the convention notes of may 31st 1787

  7. #147
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    Re: Should Confederate Memorial Day(s) exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    you have to read the convention notes of may 31st 1787
    Is this what you are referring to?

    Avalon Project - Madison Debates - May 31

    Mr. MADISON, observed that the more he reflected on the use of force, the more he doubted the practicability, the justice and the efficacy of it when applied to people collectively and not individually. -A union of the States containing such an ingredient seemed to provide for its own destruction. The use of force agst. a State, would look more like a declaration of war, than an infliction of punishment, and would probably be considered by the party attacked as a dissolution of all previous compacts by which it might be bound. He hoped that such a system would be framed as might render this recourse [FN12] unnecessary, and moved that the clause be postponed. This motion was agreed to nem. con.
    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    The damage to the black community from all this will be devastating.
    Not only on public perception and reputation, but cops simply won't want to police these neighborhoods anymore.
    The shooter was later found to be white.

  8. #148
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    Re: Should Confederate Memorial Day(s) exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    Is this what you are referring to?

    Avalon Project - Madison Debates - May 31
    only part..you have to have it all...........i shall supply the part you left out.

    The other clauses giving powers necessary to preserve harmony among the States to negative all State laws contravening in the opinion of the Nat. Leg. the articles of union, down to the last clause, (the words "or any treaties subsisting under the authority of the Union," being added after the words "contravening &c. the articles of the Union," on motion of Dr. FRANKLIN) were agreed to witht. debate or dissent. The last clause of Resolution 6. [FN11] authorizing an exertion of the force of the whole agst. a delinquent State came next into consideration.

    the power is denied...



    since you missed something else i shalll provide it also.


    William Rawle, A View of the Constitution of the United States 295--304, 305--7 1829 (2d ed.)

    The Union is an association of the people of republics; its preservation is calculated to depend on the preservation of those republics. The people of each pledge themselves to preserve that form of government in all. Thus each becomes responsible to the rest, that no other form of government shall prevail in it, and all are bound to preserve it in every one.

    But the mere compact, without the power to enforce it, would be of little value. Now this power can be no where so properly lodged, as in the Union itself. Hence, the term guarantee, indicates that the United States are authorized to oppose, and if possible, prevent every state in the Union from relinquishing the republican form of government, and as auxiliary means, they are expressly authorized and required to employ their force on the application of the constituted authorities of each state, "to repress domestic violence." If a faction should attempt to subvert the government of a state for the purpose of destroying its republican form, the paternal power of the Union could thus be called forth to subdue it.

    Yet it is not to be understood, that its interposition would be justifiable, if the people of a state should determine to retire from the Union, whether they adopted another or retained the same form of government, or if they should, with the express intention of seceding, expunge the representative system from their code, and thereby incapacitate themselves from concurring according to the mode now prescribed, in the choice of certain public officers of the United States.

    The principle of representation, although certainly the wisest and best, is not essential to the being of a republic, but to continue a member of the Union, it must be preserved, and therefore the guarantee must be so construed. It depends on the state itself to retain or abolish the principle of representation, because it depends on itself whether it will continue a member of the Union. To deny this right would be inconsistent with the principle on which all our political systems are founded, which is, that the people have in all cases, a right to determine how they will be governed.

    This right must be considered as an ingredient in the original composition of the general government, which, though not expressed, was mutually understood, and the doctrine heretofore presented to the reader in regard to the indefeasible nature of personal allegiance, is so far qualified in respect to allegiance to the United States. It was observed, that it was competent for a state to make a compact with its citizens, that the reciprocal obligations of protection and allegiance might cease on certain events; and it was further observed, that allegiance would necessarily cease on the dissolution of the society to which it was due.

    The states, then, may wholly withdraw from the Union, but while they continue, they must retain the character of representative republics. Governments of dissimilar forms and principles cannot long maintain a binding coalition. "Greece," says Montesquieu, "was undone as soon as the king of Macedon obtained a seat in the amphyctionic council." It is probable, however, that the disproportionate force as well as the monarchical form of the new confederate had its share of influence in the event. But whether the historical fact supports the theory or not, the principle in respect to ourselves is unquestionable.
    Last edited by Master PO; 05-02-15 at 01:56 PM.

  9. #149
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    Re: Should Confederate Memorial Day(s) exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    Only in defense of the south.


    In defense of slavery.

  10. #150
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    Re: Should Confederate Memorial Day(s) exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    If there is ever another succession movement, I don't think we will go to war over it. And I do not see another succession movement coming unless the politicians in DC behave so badly that the constitution becomes meaningless. If not for the 22nd amendment to the US constitution, I think we would be very close to a succession movement right now. I don't think this nation could survive a third or fourth Obama term in office. Obama has clearly shown that he has no regard for the separation of powers. And congress is too sheepishly cowed to reign him in.
    i don't see it either, the stock market would tumble, our enemies would be like sharks smelling blood.

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