View Poll Results: Should Confederate Memorial Day(s) exist?

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  • Yes

    6 18.75%
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    24 75.00%
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Thread: Should Confederate Memorial Day(s) exist?

  1. #111
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    Re: Should Confederate Memorial Day(s) exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    And the irony of your argument is the entire reason why the south seceded from the union was so that they could preserve an evil institution that deprived an entire race of people of life, liberty, and property.
    Bit of a broad and simplistic statement.

  2. #112
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    Re: Should Confederate Memorial Day(s) exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeoVlaming View Post
    Bit of a broad and simplistic statement.
    There is nothing simplistic about it. The south seceded because they believed that legalized slavery was a states rights issue. As I pointed out earlier, I love the south, but we were in the wrong during the Civil War. We left the union to preserve one of the most evil institutions ever conceived of by man. You could not find a more vile and evil cause than the one the south fought for.
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  3. #113
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    Re: Should Confederate Memorial Day(s) exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    There is nothing simplistic about it. The south seceded because they believed that legalized slavery was a states rights issue. As I pointed out earlier, I love the south, but we were in the wrong during the Civil War. We left the union to preserve one of the most evil institutions ever conceived of by man. You could not find a more vile and evil cause than the one the south fought for.
    Your posting was simplistic and overly broad because 1. there were also ther reasons and motivations that played a role and 2. you wrongly implied that all people of a particular race living in the South were slaves or unfree.

    For the record, I don't dispute the centrality of the issue of slavery in the Civil War. But I prefer to be precise and not to make broad sweeping and simplistic statements that don't do justice to the complexities of historical reality.

  4. #114
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    Re: Should Confederate Memorial Day(s) exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    A lot of confederate soldiers were drafted, and didn't enter the army willingly.
    My great-great grandfather was conscripted right off his farm in Alabama leaving my great-great grandmother to care for her 5 children and small farm.
    He was killed during the war and to add insult to injury the Yankees came through her farm taking what they wanted to feed their troops leaving my great-great grandmother behind to scrape by for her family.

    The majority of Confederates were not slave owners but often just poor farmers trying to take care of their families. I don't think we need a Confederate Memorial Day but I don't think it is right to speak ill of them.

  5. #115
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    Re: Should Confederate Memorial Day(s) exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    Amendment V

    No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

    the 5th is saying the federal government shall not deprived anyone of their rights [natural rights] without due process

    AMENDMENT XIV

    Section 1.
    All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

    the 14th is saying no state shall abridge the privileges and immunities and the rights[natural rights] of any person without due process
    Natural rights, uh?

    EB, EB, EB, EB....Why in god's name would you attempt to drag "NATURAL RIGHTS" into you quotes from the 5th and 14th Amendments? Give it up EB.

    "Due process of law" has been served on this issue and the decision of the law is that NO STATE can secede (Texas v White).

    Even if there was a way to secede, there would be significant consequences for both the Union and a state that secedes. The national security for the remaining Union would have to be considered (would the seceding State be hostile toward the Union?). Access of highways, air space, railways within the seceded state would have dealt with. If a state had the right to secede, the national sovereignty of the seceding state would be transferred by the new Constitution to the whole of the American people. The list goes on and on and on.

    Even if we forgo any legal or Constitutional questions about the right of a state to secede - then there would really be one primary question left. "Political will".

    So using the premise of a state seceding based strictly on "political will". The question is: How strong is the will of the people in the departing state to be free and independent of the control of a world superpower? How far will the U.S. government be prepared to go in imposing its will on a breakaway republic?

    In other words....

    A seceding state had better damn well be more than able of being its own sovereign state/nation in every capacity. Simple sanctions imposed by the United States of America would very quickly devastate any state that secedes.

  6. #116
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    Re: Should Confederate Memorial Day(s) exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Natural rights, uh?

    EB, EB, EB, EB....Why in god's name would you attempt to drag "NATURAL RIGHTS" into you quotes from the 5th and 14th Amendments? Give it up EB.

    "Due process of law" has been served on this issue and the decision of the law is that NO STATE can secede (Texas v White).

    Even if there was a way to secede, there would be significant consequences for both the Union and a state that secedes. The national security for the remaining Union would have to be considered (would the seceding State be hostile toward the Union?). Access of highways, air space, railways within the seceded state would have dealt with. If a state had the right to secede, the national sovereignty of the seceding state would be transferred by the new Constitution to the whole of the American people. The list goes on and on and on.

    Even if we forgo any legal or Constitutional questions about the right of a state to secede - then there would really be one primary question left. "Political will".

    So using the premise of a state seceding based strictly on "political will". The question is: How strong is the will of the people in the departing state to be free and independent of the control of a world superpower? How far will the U.S. government be prepared to go in imposing its will on a breakaway republic?

    In other words....

    A seceding state had better damn well be more than able of being its own sovereign state/nation in every capacity. Simple sanctions imposed by the United States of America would very quickly devastate any state that secedes.
    natural law/rights are part of the founding princples of america, the founders states natural rights, and U.S. FEDERAL LAW recognizes the principles of the declaration of in dependence....in U.S. enabling law

    the founders stated the the federal government is not granted the authority to preserve the harmony of the union, and cannot use force on a state......may 31st 1787

    constitution law before the civil war teaches that states are not bound to the union and may leave the union if the wish-- "View of the constitution 1825"

    how far how a state would make it being it being on its own........who knows.


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  7. #117
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    Re: Should Confederate Memorial Day(s) exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    natural law/rights are part of the founding princples of america, the founders states natural rights, and U.S. FEDERAL LAW recognizes the principles of the declaration of in dependence....in U.S. enabling law

    the founders stated the the federal government is not granted the authority to preserve the harmony of the union, and cannot use force on a state......may 31st 1787

    constitution law before the civil war teaches that states are not bound to the union and may leave the union if the wish-- "View of the constitution 1825"

    how far how a state would make it being it being on its own........who knows.
    Principles aren't law...sorry. But the ensuring efforts of you to project the notion that our rights are from a higher power...isn't applicable in this topic.

  8. #118
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    Re: Should Confederate Memorial Day(s) exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    And the irony of your argument is the entire reason why the south seceded from the union was so that they could preserve an evil institution that deprived an entire race of people of life, liberty, and property.
    that is true..yes, but not all of the states left because of slavery, and this is made know by some of the states in their declaration of separation from the u.s.....as they stated that the u.s federal government would not upholding the constitution.

    slaves at the time were considered property and not people, and life liberty and property did not apply to them.


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    Re: Should Confederate Memorial Day(s) exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Principles aren't law...sorry. But the ensuring efforts of you to project the notion that our rights are from a higher power...isn't applicable in this topic.
    principles are unwritten law...just like rights are unwritten law.


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    Re: Should Confederate Memorial Day(s) exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    principles are unwritten law...just like rights are unwritten law.
    Dream on...you continue to support an erroneous belief system about the non-existent role of Natural Rights in a society clearly built on civil law.

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