View Poll Results: Should the US and other Western states recognize Kurdish independence?

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Thread: Should the US (and other Western countries) recognize the Kurdish independence [W:59]

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    Should the US (and other Western countries) recognize the Kurdish independence [W:59]

    In view of the developments of the last couple of decades, should the US and other Western countries recognize the right of the Kurds to form an independent state, starting from the current Kurdish autonomous region in Iraq but eventually also encompassing the Kurdish areas of Syria, Turkey and Iran (if the Kurds in those areas choose to join such a state)?

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    Re: Should the US (and other Western countries) recognize the Kurdish independence?

    As a principle yes, but in scope of real politics.. hell no.

    The problem is not Kurdish independence but the fact that certain kurdish fractions (who are part of the government) want a "Greater Kurdistan" and that includes areas in Turkey, Iran, Iraq and Syria, and that is dangerous as hell since it is oil rich areas and is controlled by other countries.

    Plus there is the small ignored fact, that "Kurdistan" has never really existed as an independent nation before so the argument for an independence is a bit...
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    Re: Should the US (and other Western countries) recognize the Kurdish independence?

    The Kurds already have the right to set up a state, everyone does, it's whether they can do so successfully is another matter. Should they achieve an independent and viable state, then it should be recognised.
    "To waste, to destroy, our natural resources, to skin and exhaust the land instead of using it so as to increase its usefulness, will result in undermining in the days of our children the very prosperity which we ought by rights to hand down to them."~ Theodore Roosevelt (Message to Congress, Dec. 3, 1907)

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    Re: Should the US (and other Western countries) recognize the Kurdish independence?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    As a principle yes, but in scope of real politics.. hell no.

    The problem is not Kurdish independence but the fact that certain kurdish fractions (who are part of the government) want a "Greater Kurdistan" and that includes areas in Turkey, Iran, Iraq and Syria, and that is dangerous as hell since it is oil rich areas and is controlled by other countries.

    Plus there is the small ignored fact, that "Kurdistan" has never really existed as an independent nation before so the argument for an independence is a bit...
    Virtually all of the countries that became independent in the past 60 years never existed before.

    And why should Kurds in Turkey, Syria and Iran not have the right to self-determination?

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    Re: Should the US (and other Western countries) recognize the Kurdish independence?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Plus there is the small ignored fact, that "Kurdistan" has never really existed as an independent nation before so the argument for an independence is a bit...
    You ever seen a map of Africa?
    "To waste, to destroy, our natural resources, to skin and exhaust the land instead of using it so as to increase its usefulness, will result in undermining in the days of our children the very prosperity which we ought by rights to hand down to them."~ Theodore Roosevelt (Message to Congress, Dec. 3, 1907)

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    Re: Should the US (and other Western countries) recognize the Kurdish independence?

    How would we "recognize" that independence?

    Has anyone seen a map of the region these days showing who is in effective control over what area? (It is not pretty.)
    "Every time something really bad happens, people cry out for safety, and the government answers by taking rights away from good people." - Penn Jillette.

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    Re: Should the US (and other Western countries) recognize the Kurdish independence?

    Quote Originally Posted by OrphanSlug View Post
    How would we "recognize" that independence?

    Has anyone seen a map of the region these days showing who is in effective control over what area? (It is not pretty.)
    Actually, the Kurdish regional government has been pretty much in control of most of Kurdish Iraq for two decades and they've proven far more stable than the rest of the country.

    What I mean by "recognizing independence" is issues a declaration that should the Kurds opt to establish their own sovereign state, it would be recognized. So far the West has tried to restrain the drive for independence.

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    Re: Should the US (and other Western countries) recognize the Kurdish independence?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeoVlaming View Post
    Actually, the Kurdish regional government has been pretty much in control of most of Kurdish Iraq for two decades and they've proven far more stable than the rest of the country.

    What I mean by "recognizing independence" is issues a declaration that should the Kurds opt to establish their own sovereign state, it would be recognized. So far the West has tried to restrain the drive for independence.
    That is my point, for two decades they have been in regional control over themselves even though it does not look like that on a nation map. As an example, the present government of Iraq has no more interest in Kurdish independence than Saddam did. And no matter what we do, we would need at least some level of understanding with the government we 'de facto' installed in Iraq to go along with that part. I do not see it happening.
    "Every time something really bad happens, people cry out for safety, and the government answers by taking rights away from good people." - Penn Jillette.

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    Re: Should the US (and other Western countries) recognize the Kurdish independence?

    Quote Originally Posted by OrphanSlug View Post
    That is my point, for two decades they have been in regional control over themselves even though it does not look like that on a nation map. As an example, the present government of Iraq has no more interest in Kurdish independence than Saddam did. And no matter what we do, we would need at least some level of understanding with the government we 'de facto' installed in Iraq to go along with that part. I do not see it happening.
    The "nation map" tells you that there is one government in control of all of Iraq. So much for the reliability of that "nation map".
    Fact of the matter is that for the past 20 years the Kurds in northern Iraq have proved themselves reliable alluies and capable of self-government. More than can be said for the successive governments in Baghdad.

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    Re: Should the US (and other Western countries) recognize the Kurdish independence?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeoVlaming View Post
    The "nation map" tells you that there is one government in control of all of Iraq. So much for the reliability of that "nation map".
    Fact of the matter is that for the past 20 years the Kurds in northern Iraq have proved themselves reliable alluies and capable of self-government. More than can be said for the successive governments in Baghdad.
    We are saying something similar, but for different reasons. In a way you have helped me prove my case.

    I used Iraq as an example, but for the Kurds to obtain real independence it would take Iraq, Turkey, Syria, Iran and arguably a very small part of Armenia (which is already small.) I am asking you to consider this as the regional political spectrum of all these nations is far more tricky than just dealing with Iraq. The Kurds have not obtained a unified degree of self-governance in all of those nations.

    Economically the Kurds have plenty going for them, and could do well assuming cooperation with those very same nations they would have to be independent of. The real reason is while the Kurdish region is rather large and in oil rich territory not a bit of it touches an outlet (like the Persian Gulf, or the Mediterranean, or the Black Sea.)

    It would be tough for the Kurds to obtain real independence *without* outsiders making it happen by force. And historically, we know that that leads to.
    "Every time something really bad happens, people cry out for safety, and the government answers by taking rights away from good people." - Penn Jillette.

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