View Poll Results: Should the US and other Western states recognize Kurdish independence?

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  • Yes

    6 54.55%
  • No

    5 45.45%
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Thread: Should the US (and other Western countries) recognize the Kurdish independence [W:59]

  1. #71
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    Re: Should the US (and other Western countries) recognize the Kurdish independence?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeoVlaming View Post
    So presumably you are in favour of Western countries revoking their recognition of the independence of all countries that have potential territorial conflicts with neighbours and that can't fully defend themselves on their own?
    I'm assuming your aren't a very regular debater. You know what a straw man argument is, I take it.

    Firstly, there is no recognition of independence to revoke, since Iraqi Kurdistan isn't yet a state and has no such recognition.

    Secondly, such recognition would not be something any other state would rush to award until Kurdistan had fixed its borders, and it couldn't do that without revoking any potential claim on the territory of its neighbours.
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  2. #72
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    Re: Should the US (and other Western countries) recognize the Kurdish independence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    I'm assuming your aren't a very regular debater. You know what a straw man argument is, I take it.

    Firstly, there is no recognition of independence to revoke, since Iraqi Kurdistan isn't yet a state and has no such recognition.

    Secondly, such recognition would not be something any other state would rush to award until Kurdistan had fixed its borders, and it couldn't do that without revoking any potential claim on the territory of its neighbours.
    I think I've debated more than you have. That is why I generally read the postings I respond to and try to remain coherent in my arguments.

  3. #73
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    Re: Should the US (and other Western countries) recognize the Kurdish independence?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeoVlaming View Post
    I think I've debated more than you have. That is why I generally read the postings I respond to and try to remain coherent in my arguments.
    Were you being coherent you wouldn't ask about whether I'm in favour of revoking recognition of an independent state that doesn't even exist. Clearly the situation relating to recognising for the first time a hypothetical Iraqi Kurdish state is completely different to revoking recognition of a state that already has it.

    The question in hand is: Should the West recognise Kurdish independence? My argument is pretty clear:

    1. There is no Kurdish independence, nor any in the process of being established.
    2. A declaration of Iraqi Kurdish independence may occur, but international recognition of it would not be automatic, especially if it immediately entered into armed conflict with either rump Iraq or any of its neighbours.
    3. Iraqi Kurdish independence is not the same thing as Kurdish independence, since Iraqi Kurdistan is home to only c.25% of the Kurdish people and comprises about the same proportion of territory of what can be loosely termed, and would be fiercely disputed, Greater Kurdistan.
    4. I severely doubt that there will ever be a unified Kurdish state whose independence may or may not be recognised by other nations. The Kurds are simply too diverse an ethnicity (or ethnicities) and far too dispersed geographically ever to create such a unitary state, especially in the teeth of opposition from every one of its potential neighbours. Sad perhaps, but true.
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    Re: Should the US (and other Western countries) recognize the Kurdish independence [W

    Quote Originally Posted by LeoVlaming View Post
    In view of the developments of the last couple of decades, should the US and other Western countries recognize the right of the Kurds to form an independent state, starting from the current Kurdish autonomous region in Iraq but eventually also encompassing the Kurdish areas of Syria, Turkey and Iran (if the Kurds in those areas choose to join such a state)?
    Sure, why not. And the independence of the separatists in eastern Ukraine, too!
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  5. #75
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    Re: Should the US (and other Western countries) recognize the Kurdish independence?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    As a principle yes, but in scope of real politics.. hell no.

    The problem is not Kurdish independence but the fact that certain kurdish fractions (who are part of the government) want a "Greater Kurdistan" and that includes areas in Turkey, Iran, Iraq and Syria, and that is dangerous as hell since it is oil rich areas and is controlled by other countries.

    Plus there is the small ignored fact, that "Kurdistan" has never really existed as an independent nation before so the argument for an independence is a bit...
    Pretty much this. As a matter of idealism, yes, they should have their own nation. But as a matter of practical reality, it would be very messy to get there from here.
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