View Poll Results: Future Influence: Rural vrs Urban America. Who Wins?

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  • Rural America will win and keep its historical influence in Governance

    3 15.79%
  • Urban America will win and take over Rural Americas influence in Governance

    16 84.21%
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Thread: Future Influence: Rural vrs Urban America. Who Wins?

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    Future Influence: Rural vrs Urban America. Who Wins?

    As a political junkie this is the only real issue that actually matters as I see it. The emotion-inducing topic of Rural vrs Urban influence in America and who will essentially "win" in the future. I think it's the one issue that all others derive their inherent problems from subtly so.

    Future Influence
    : Rural vrs Urban America. Who Wins?


    For the first time in history, more people worldwide live in cities than outside them. Across the globe, urban areas add more than 60 million new residents every year. In the United States, of course, the rural-to-urban tipping point happened generations ago. Today, nearly 80 percent of Americans live in metropolitan areas). But it’s a demographic shift that’s ongoing.
    It’s the age of urban ascendance. But it’s also an age of urban/rural discord. In an ever-flatter world, big cities often identify more with urban counterparts halfway across the globe than they do with rural leaders just down the road. Chicago woos jobs from Shanghai, but may not coordinate with small towns in downstate Illinois. Boston aligns itself more with Berlin and Beijing than with the Berkshires.There’s always been a gulf between rural and urban America. But that rift is widening -- in politics, in funding, in economic mobility, on social issues. How government leaders respond to that rift can either help bridge the gap between cities and rural areas, or drive the country down an even more divergent and potentially debilitating path.
    America's Rural/Urban Divide: A Special Series




    There really are two Americas. An urban one and a rural one. - The Washington Post
    Red State, Blue City: How the Urban-Rural Divide Is Splitting America - The Atlantic
    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...gress/1827407/

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    Re: Future Influence: Rural vrs Urban America. Who Wins?

    We've been fighting the urban vs rural battle since the beginning of this country. It's Hamilton vs Jefferson. Urban has been pretty steadily winning the entire time. That's why we have all these nice things.
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    Re: Future Influence: Rural vrs Urban America. Who Wins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    We've been fighting the urban vs rural battle since the beginning of this country. It's Hamilton vs Jefferson. Urban has been pretty steadily winning the entire time. That's why we have all these nice things.
    While Urban is definitely winning heavily in its strongholds (East Coast cities, West Coast cities+++, the actual regrettable truth is that most of the overall US local government is still run in huge majorities by rural GOP politicians who siphon money away from government. I don't think this phenomena will last into the future but I can tell you that in the vast majority of states, even in extremely blue metro states, as many of the articles point out, rural GOP factions unite to "Swamp Out" their states powerful urban centers even though 80% of Americans are in those centers. That's the dismal truth.


    Why Do Cash-Strapped Governments Have Rich Citizens?
    Boom times in oil and agriculture have brought new wealth to people in many rural counties. But the money in bank accounts is not translating into more money for government.

    http://www.governing.com/topics/urba...al-series.html
    Last edited by Ryan5; 04-26-15 at 08:00 PM.

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    Re: Future Influence: Rural vrs Urban America. Who Wins?

    To be honest in the context of the OP article, this is not a new subject. There are so many regards to the growing divide between urban and rural environments. Education, wealth divide, percentages at income quintiles, age demographics, how business invests, how public services are handled, etc.

    All of that is bound to have dramatic influence on political leans.

    Take for example, education. We have known for years now that the higher the education level the higher the probability of liberal lean. We have also known for years now that people in urban environments tend to be higher educated. Something like 30% in urban to 20% rural have a college education, "urban suburbs" are even higher by percentage educated and is higher than 35% (stats very slightly on this based on source, but they are close enough.) It makes sense for urban populations to have more liberal leans with rural settings more conservative leans (odds are social conservative first.)

    As another example, take public vs. private investment. Rural public sector government spending cuts hurt worse than urban environments and odds are in times of State and Federal spending it ends up being rural that is cut first. Even thought the public sectors has a mandate to fund rural and urban spending needs, private investment has no real mandate for that. If the business model fits that is one thing, but usually it is the rural areas looked at with lower education and less population density. That speaks directly to corporate investment, granted tax incentives can skew this from time to time. This is exacerbated by rural communities dependent upon few to one manufacturing or production organizations. They walk for whatever reason and it is painfully difficult for a rural community to economically rebound. Cities like Detroit and Philadelphia also qualify when dependent upon singular areas of business, but outside of those examples a urban community can economically shift in ways that rural communities cannot.

    Because of our movement over the past 100 or so years to dense urban environments of some kind, we know that is likely to continue. Industrial revolution, manufacturing around WW1 and WW2, the economic model of the 50s and 60s, of course the business models of the 80s, technology and "dot.com" and internationalization of labor of the 90s, and finance that lead up to the crash just a few years ago all point to one key association. The economic movements in urban populations over rural populations, how those models effected a nation where as over 100 years ago rural organization (rural business, local trade, farming, etc.) ran the nation. Now, not so much.

    There is really little reason to assume with the aging population in rural communities to expect some sort of rebound near enough to eclipse what happens in this nation's urban and "urban suburbs" populations. Urban clearly wins, in a way they already have a long enough economic and political foundation to ensure that is the case going forward.
    "Every time something really bad happens, people cry out for safety, and the government answers by taking rights away from good people." - Penn Jillette.

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    Re: Future Influence: Rural vrs Urban America. Who Wins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan5 View Post
    While Urban is definitely winning heavily in its strongholds (East Coast cities, West Coast cities+++, the actual regrettable truth is that most of the overall US local government is still run in huge majorities by rural GOP politicians who siphon money away from government. I don't think this phenomena will last into the future but I can tell you that in the vast majority of states, even in extremely blue metro states, as many of the articles point out, rural GOP factions unite to "Swamp Out" their states powerful urban centers even though 80% of Americans are in those centers. That's the dismal truth.


    Why Do Cash-Strapped Governments Have Rich Citizens?
    Boom times in oil and agriculture have brought new wealth to people in many rural counties. But the money in bank accounts is not translating into more money for government.

    America's Rural/Urban Divide: A Special Series
    Urban ideas determine most of our national culture and policy. They are simply better, more powerful, and more effective ideas. Even when rural conservatives band together to oppose their urban neighbors, it doesn't make a difference. Urban ways still dominate. We're the affluent ones. We're the cultural creators. We're the ones driving innovation, industry, technology, and basically everything else that makes our nation powerful. Rural culture gave us... country music? All the prosperous capitalists who made fortunes in rural areas were urban people with urban ideas. Good ol' boy and Texas rancher W Bush is from New Haven, Connecticut and went to Yale and Harvard. That basically sums up the urban/rural dynamic. Even in rural areas, the successful ideas and culture are the urban ones. Nobody goes to see movies made for rural audiences. They go to see urban Hollywood blockbusters, even cynical patriotic pandering ones like American Sniper (Chris Kyle himself was from metropolitan parts of Texas and Bradley Cooper is from Philadelphia). Even the high rollers in the Republican Party like the Koch Brothers are urban men with urban ideas. They're from Wichita, and David lives in Manhattan. Sheldon Adelson is from Boston and lives in Las Vegas.

    Even rural conservatives are marching to the beat of urban people and their urban ideas. Rural ideas simply have no power.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

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    Re: Future Influence: Rural vrs Urban America. Who Wins?

    Quote Originally Posted by OrphanSlug View Post
    To be honest in the context of the OP article, this is not a new subject. There are so many regards to the growing divide between urban and rural environments. Education, wealth divide, percentages at income quintiles, age demographics, how business invests, how public services are handled, etc.

    All of that is bound to have dramatic influence on political leans.

    Take for example, education. We have known for years now that the higher the education level the higher the probability of liberal lean. We have also known for years now that people in urban environments tend to be higher educated. Something like 30% in urban to 20% rural have a college education, "urban suburbs" are even higher by percentage educated and is higher than 35% (stats very slightly on this based on source, but they are close enough.) It makes sense for urban populations to have more liberal leans with rural settings more conservative leans (odds are social conservative first.)

    As another example, take public vs. private investment. Rural public sector government spending cuts hurt worse than urban environments and odds are in times of State and Federal spending it ends up being rural that is cut first. Even thought the public sectors has a mandate to fund rural and urban spending needs, private investment has no real mandate for that. If the business model fits that is one thing, but usually it is the rural areas looked at with lower education and less population density. That speaks directly to corporate investment, granted tax incentives can skew this from time to time. This is exacerbated by rural communities dependent upon few to one manufacturing or production organizations. They walk for whatever reason and it is painfully difficult for a rural community to economically rebound. Cities like Detroit and Philadelphia also qualify when dependent upon singular areas of business, but outside of those examples a urban community can economically shift in ways that rural communities cannot.

    Because of our movement over the past 100 or so years to dense urban environments of some kind, we know that is likely to continue. Industrial revolution, manufacturing around WW1 and WW2, the economic model of the 50s and 60s, of course the business models of the 80s, technology and "dot.com" and internationalization of labor of the 90s, and finance that lead up to the crash just a few years ago all point to one key association. The economic movements in urban populations over rural populations, how those models effected a nation where as over 100 years ago rural organization (rural business, local trade, farming, etc.) ran the nation. Now, not so much.

    There is really little reason to assume with the aging population in rural communities to expect some sort of rebound near enough to eclipse what happens in this nation's urban and "urban suburbs" populations. Urban clearly wins, in a way they already have a long enough economic and political foundation to ensure that is the case going forward.

    Yes but nobody (so far) is denying most of what you said statistically. The dilemma is more structurally subtle yet at the same time extremely pronounced when looking at a map of political influence. GOP runs this country on a local level for the vast majority of Americans (even in states with Goliath Blue Urban hubs). America's Rural/Urban Divide: A Special Series


    Rural GOP politicians "Suppress" 80% of Americans culturally and in the end economically" because their influence is radically out of proportion to their populations. They shift power to rural "Blue Dog" Democrats and Urban GOP anomalies who then "Sell Out" their Urban Blue political and economic hubs to Urban Red GOP political local interests. That's the problem for the modern Democratic party. They're winning the long war but losing practically every battle.

    Rural Areas Lose People But Not Power

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    Re: Future Influence: Rural vrs Urban America. Who Wins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Urban ideas determine most of our national culture and policy. They are simply better, more powerful, and more effective ideas. Even when rural conservatives band together to oppose their urban neighbors, it doesn't make a difference. Urban ways still dominate. We're the affluent ones. We're the cultural creators. We're the ones driving innovation, industry, technology, and basically everything else that makes our nation powerful. Rural culture gave us... country music? All the prosperous capitalists who made fortunes in rural areas were urban people with urban ideas. Good ol' boy and Texas rancher W Bush is from New Haven, Connecticut and went to Yale and Harvard. That basically sums up the urban/rural dynamic. Even in rural areas, the successful ideas and culture are the urban ones. Nobody goes to see movies made for rural audiences. They go to see urban Hollywood blockbusters, even cynical patriotic pandering ones like American Sniper (Chris Kyle himself was from metropolitan parts of Texas and Bradley Cooper is from Philadelphia). Even the high rollers in the Republican Party like the Koch Brothers are urban men with urban ideas. They're from Wichita, and David lives in Manhattan. Sheldon Adelson is from Boston and lives in Las Vegas.

    Even rural conservatives are marching to the beat of urban people and their urban ideas. Rural ideas simply have no power.
    That's interesting you say that, you have some pride in your cities don't you? It's quite short sighted.

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    Re: Future Influence: Rural vrs Urban America. Who Wins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan5 View Post
    As a political junkie this is the only real issue that actually matters as I see it. The emotion-inducing topic of Rural vrs Urban influence in America and who will essentially "win" in the future. I think it's the one issue that all others derive their inherent problems from subtly so.

    Future Influence
    : Rural vrs Urban America. Who Wins?


    For the first time in history, more people worldwide live in cities than outside them. Across the globe, urban areas add more than 60 million new residents every year. In the United States, of course, the rural-to-urban tipping point happened generations ago. Today, nearly 80 percent of Americans live in metropolitan areas). But it’s a demographic shift that’s ongoing.
    It’s the age of urban ascendance. But it’s also an age of urban/rural discord. In an ever-flatter world, big cities often identify more with urban counterparts halfway across the globe than they do with rural leaders just down the road. Chicago woos jobs from Shanghai, but may not coordinate with small towns in downstate Illinois. Boston aligns itself more with Berlin and Beijing than with the Berkshires.There’s always been a gulf between rural and urban America. But that rift is widening -- in politics, in funding, in economic mobility, on social issues. How government leaders respond to that rift can either help bridge the gap between cities and rural areas, or drive the country down an even more divergent and potentially debilitating path.
    America's Rural/Urban Divide: A Special Series




    There really are two Americas. An urban one and a rural one. - The Washington Post
    Red State, Blue City: How the Urban-Rural Divide Is Splitting America - The Atlantic
    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...gress/1827407/
    Who produces food again?

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    Re: Future Influence: Rural vrs Urban America. Who Wins?

    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post
    Who produces food again?


    Giant corporate entities, the CEO's of which live in cities.
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    Re: Future Influence: Rural vrs Urban America. Who Wins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Urban ideas determine most of our national culture and policy. They are simply better, more powerful, and more effective ideas. Even when rural conservatives band together to oppose their urban neighbors, it doesn't make a difference. Urban ways still dominate. We're the affluent ones. We're the cultural creators. We're the ones driving innovation, industry, technology, and basically everything else that makes our nation powerful. Rural culture gave us... country music? All the prosperous capitalists who made fortunes in rural areas were urban people with urban ideas. Good ol' boy and Texas rancher W Bush is from New Haven, Connecticut and went to Yale and Harvard. That basically sums up the urban/rural dynamic. Even in rural areas, the successful ideas and culture are the urban ones. Nobody goes to see movies made for rural audiences. They go to see urban Hollywood blockbusters, even cynical patriotic pandering ones like American Sniper (Chris Kyle himself was from metropolitan parts of Texas and Bradley Cooper is from Philadelphia). Even the high rollers in the Republican Party like the Koch Brothers are urban men with urban ideas. They're from Wichita, and David lives in Manhattan. Sheldon Adelson is from Boston and lives in Las Vegas.

    Even rural conservatives are marching to the beat of urban people and their urban ideas. Rural ideas simply have no power.
    That's interesting you say that, you have some pride in your cities don't you? It's quite short sighted. Have you never thought that maybe you're part of the problem?

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