View Poll Results: Should be on welfare be allowed to vote?

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    99 82.50%
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    15 12.50%
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Thread: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

  1. #701
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    Re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Well that is true. But I wonder why it is that those who can't grasp it are nevertheless dead certain I am not only wrong, but evil.
    "you are evil because you have no compassion, no feeling in your soul for other people, because you want to deny them the basic necessities of life"




    This is why it is impossible to discuss problems with people who's thinking process comes from how they feel about something instead of using reason.
    Last edited by Master PO; 04-28-15 at 02:42 PM.

  2. #702
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    Re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    "you are evil because you have no compassion, no feeling in your soul for other people, because you want to deny them the basic necessities of life"

    This is why it is impossible to discuss problems with people who's thinking process comes from how they feel about something instead of using reason.
    You left out the part where I worship the rich, want to deny everybody else their rights, want to invade bedrooms and wombs, want to take science out of the schools, and cram religion down everybody's throats. So of course I hate poor people. (Especially if they are black.)
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  3. #703
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    Re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    You left out the part where I worship the rich, want to deny everybody else their rights, want to invade bedrooms and wombs, want to take science out of the schools, and cram religion down everybody's throats. So of course I hate poor people. (Especially if they are black.)
    yes this is a constant theme...on the accusation list

  4. #704
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    Re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    the constitution is clear.. it states what powers are delegated to the the federal government, and their are NO powers of the federal government into the personal life's liberty and property of the people, ..those are state powers.
    Non-sequitur, the claim you made is that the USC prohibits spending:

    the constitution does not permit giving money to people.

    Prove it.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Non-sequitur, the claim you made is that the USC prohibits spending:

    the constitution does not permit giving money to people.

    Prove it.
    the constitution does not grant the federal government power into the life's liberty and property of the people........BECAUSE .....those powers are going to be the most vast powers there are, and the federal government powers are few and defined.

    the federal government giving handouts to the people, involves them directly into the life's of the people.......the federal government powers are external on the union, while state powers are internal to the union.

    no where in article 1 section 8 does the federal government have such power.


    federalist 45-

    FEDERAL POWERS"


    The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government, are few and defined.The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected.


    STATE POWERS:

    Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. . The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State.

  6. #706
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    Re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    the constitution does not grant the federal government power into the life's liberty and property of the people.
    Still waiting for you to prove that the USC PROHIBITS spending.

    You have not PROVEN it, especially when you cite The Federalist Papers.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  7. #707
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    Re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Still waiting for you to prove that the USC PROHIBITS spending.

    You have not PROVEN it, especially when you cite The Federalist Papers.
    please post where i stated the constitution prohibits the government to spend money.

  8. #708
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    Re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    please post where i stated the constitution prohibits the government to spend money.
    It is such a waste of time responding to you. You reply to a post about Madison complaining about Congressional SPENDING on "constituents" (when in reality it was monies for French refugees) with this jem:

    "the constitution does not permit giving money to people."

    ...and you wonder how I came up with "Congress is prohibited from spending"? As I said, this is complete waste of time because you apparently can't remember what is posted from day to day nor can understand the meaning of the words on the page, but I will write this slowly in hopes it will get through. When a person says: "does not permit", most sentient beings understand this to mean "prohibited", ie, not permitted. It is that simple. And when it is added to "the constitution does not permit", again, you are making the claim the USC prohibits, in this case, Congress spending monies for relief...or broader....welfare. I asked you to prove this.....you did not.....and then you suddenly get confused about the ORIGINAL POINT OF CONTENTION. What is wrong, did you slip and hit your head? I have no idea how it is that you have suddenly become confused about what you replied to over the last 2 days (yesterday and today), but there you are. I'm having a hard understanding why it is that I am having to explain to you what you have been debating with me....but there you are, you seem to lose track and get confused a lot in our debates......even when the comments and replies to all of this are still existing and all one has to do is to go back and review if anything is forgotten.

    So what it the deal, why can't you do this?

    Further, just to clarify this confused (by you) argument about spending:

    “Since the foundation of the Nation sharp differences of opinion have persisted as to the true interpretation of the phrase. Madison asserted it amounted to no more than a reference to the other powers enumerated in the subsequent clauses of the same section; that, as the United States is a government of limited and enumerated powers, the grant of power to tax and spend for the general national welfare must be confined to the numerated legislative fields committed to the Congress. In this view the phrase is mere tautology, for taxation and appropriation are or may be necessary incidents of the exercise of any of the enumerated legislative powers. Hamilton, on the other hand, maintained the clause confers a power separate and distinct from those later enumerated, is not restricted in meaning by the grant of them, and Congress consequently has a substantive power to tax and to appropriate, limited only by the requirement that it shall be exercised to provide for the general welfare of the United States. Each contention has had the support of those whose views are entitled to weight. This court had noticed the question, but has never found it necessary to decide which is the true construction. Justice Story, in his Commentaries, espouses the Hamiltonian position. We shall not review the writings of public men and commentators or discuss the legislative practice. Study of all these leads us to conclude that the reading advocated by Justice Story is the correct one. While, therefore, the power to tax is not unlimited, its confines are set in the clause which confers it, and not in those of 8 which bestow and define the legislative powers of the Congress. It results that the power of Congress to authorize expenditure of public moneys for public purposes is not limited by the direct grants of legislative power found in the Constitution.”
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  9. #709
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    Re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    It is such a waste of time responding to you. You reply to a post about Madison complaining about Congressional SPENDING on "constituents" (when in reality it was monies for French refugees) with this jem:

    "the constitution does not permit giving money to people."

    ...and you wonder how I came up with "Congress is prohibited from spending"? As I said, this is complete waste of time because you apparently can't remember what is posted from day to day nor can understand the meaning of the words on the page, but I will write this slowly in hopes it will get through. When a person says: "does not permit", most sentient beings understand this to mean "prohibited", ie, not permitted. It is that simple. And when it is added to "the constitution does not permit", again, you are making the claim the USC prohibits, in this case, Congress spending monies for relief...or broader....welfare. I asked you to prove this.....you did not.....and then you suddenly get confused about the ORIGINAL POINT OF CONTENTION. What is wrong, did you slip and hit your head? I have no idea how it is that you have suddenly become confused about what you replied to over the last 2 days (yesterday and today), but there you are. I'm having a hard understanding why it is that I am having to explain to you what you have been debating with me....but there you are, you seem to lose track and get confused a lot in our debates......even when the comments and replies to all of this are still existing and all one has to do is to go back and review if anything is forgotten.

    So what it the deal, why can't you do this?

    Further, just to clarify this confused (by you) argument about spending:

    “Since the foundation of the Nation sharp differences of opinion have persisted as to the true interpretation of the phrase. Madison asserted it amounted to no more than a reference to the other powers enumerated in the subsequent clauses of the same section; that, as the United States is a government of limited and enumerated powers, the grant of power to tax and spend for the general national welfare must be confined to the numerated legislative fields committed to the Congress. In this view the phrase is mere tautology, for taxation and appropriation are or may be necessary incidents of the exercise of any of the enumerated legislative powers. Hamilton, on the other hand, maintained the clause confers a power separate and distinct from those later enumerated, is not restricted in meaning by the grant of them, and Congress consequently has a substantive power to tax and to appropriate, limited only by the requirement that it shall be exercised to provide for the general welfare of the United States. Each contention has had the support of those whose views are entitled to weight. This court had noticed the question, but has never found it necessary to decide which is the true construction. Justice Story, in his Commentaries, espouses the Hamiltonian position. We shall not review the writings of public men and commentators or discuss the legislative practice. Study of all these leads us to conclude that the reading advocated by Justice Story is the correct one. While, therefore, the power to tax is not unlimited, its confines are set in the clause which confers it, and not in those of 8 which bestow and define the legislative powers of the Congress. It results that the power of Congress to authorize expenditure of public moneys for public purposes is not limited by the direct grants of legislative power found in the Constitution.”
    so in other words you cannot show me saying "the constitution prohibits government from spending money".

    so you give up your quest on finding me wrong and move on to something else.

  10. #710
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    Re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Since welfare payments are already inherently unconstitutional, under any paradigm in which we are assuming they continue to exist, we can place any stipulations we want on accepting such payments.

    Preventing voting is a reasonable stipulation on being on the public dole, since it can be assumed that those on the public dole will probably vote for giving themselves a raise.

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