View Poll Results: Should be on welfare be allowed to vote?

Voters
120. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    99 82.50%
  • No

    15 12.50%
  • Other

    7 5.83%
  • Welcome To Costco I Love You

    11 9.17%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 65 of 76 FirstFirst ... 1555636465666775 ... LastLast
Results 641 to 650 of 756

Thread: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

  1. #641
    Living in Gods country


    JANFU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    17,175

    Re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    And now gentlemen, (and ladies if any are present), I believe I have stated my case. And the arguments are becoming tediously circular and it gets boring correcting the mischaracterizations of my arguments.

    So I will leave you at this point. If anybody is brave enough to wade on the concept of whether one Citizen should have the ability to vote benefits for himself at the expense of others, we can revisit that. But so far nobody has been that brave.

    Ya'll all have a good afternoon and evening.
    You believe in graduated rights. Those with more have more, those with less have less.
    Taking a vote away is removing the cornerstone of a democracy.
    Once you start removing or restricting rights, well it leads to more restrictions.
    To think otherwise is simplistic at best.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Hillary is the only defense I or anyone else needs.
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Not once have I showed my dick to a woman and she thought it was creepy. In fact, in 100% of the cases, they were pretty excited about it. I don't know who you're showing your **** too.

  2. #642
    Sage

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:53 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    8,151

    Re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    I see you have decided not to reference the OP, to ignore the context of the debate, and have decided to try to turn this into yet another "SS is killing us, I tells yah!". This thread is not about modifying social programs, it is about:

    Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?
    When one of our elected council members has a conflict of interest, she or he doesn't (can't) vote on it. Minors don't vote because they are dependent on others. Two examples of people not able to vote because of either dependency or conflict of interest.

    If people do not pay much or any federal taxes and receive a great deal of federal assistance dollars just to get by, they are essentially dependents, to put it one way, or have a conflict of interest, to put it another way. This is not at all outlandish. They have petitioned to society to be provided for as a dependent because they can't provide for themselves. Same as minors can't vote, maybe they shouldn't vote either.

    However given that few people are 100% reliant on federal assistance for their basic needs, I'm not sure it would make sense for people to typically lose 100% of their voting power. Maybe the weight of a vote should correspond to the degree of dependence or independence of the voter.

    If the discussion becomes about the effectiveness of our social spending, which I think that is a relevant sub-topic, then we have to ask why we're throwing most of our money at the most privileged demographic.

  3. #643
    Sage
    Gimmesometruth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    US Southwest
    Last Seen
    09-13-17 @ 10:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    22,405

    Re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    When one of our elected council members has a conflict of interest, she or he doesn't (can't) vote on it. Minors don't vote because they are dependent on others. Two examples of people not able to vote because of either dependency or conflict of interest.
    Conflict of interest is based on an idea that person can benefit at a much, much greater extent than another, that is very different than voting for something nearly ANYONE can benefit from. Should those that could benefit in the future due to economic loss also be barred from from voting for a politician because that politician supports, among a huge host of other programs, SNAP? Complete nonsense. Further, those under 17 are not adults....and are already disenfranchised from voting for SNAP....but then you guys are arguing for declining benefits for them anyway.....so it is pretty pointless.

    If people do not pay much or any federal taxes and receive a great deal of federal assistance dollars just to get by, they are essentially dependents, to put it one way, or have a conflict of interest, to put it another way. This is not at all outlandish. They have petitioned to society to be provided for as a dependent because they can't provide for themselves. Same as minors can't vote, maybe they shouldn't vote either.
    Because, of course, the reasons minors are not voting is due to "dependency". Right....you got it.

    However given that few people are 100% reliant on federal assistance for their basic needs, I'm not sure it would make sense for people to typically lose 100% of their voting power. Maybe the weight of a vote should correspond to the degree of dependence or independence of the voter.
    Perhaps we should create a Department of Special Disenfranchisement to come up with all sorts of convoluted stop the vote schemes. It is a sure fire way to a better society.

    If the discussion becomes about the effectiveness of our social spending, which I think that is a relevant sub-topic, then we have to ask why we're throwing most of our money at the most privileged demographic.
    A good diversion is always recommended.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  4. #644
    Sage

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:53 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    8,151

    Re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Conflict of interest is based on an idea that person can benefit at a much, much greater extent than another, that is very different than voting for something nearly ANYONE can benefit from.
    Infinite shades of gray here. It's only a conflict if the person stands to gain to a much much greater extent than others? What about only one "much?" You're trying to draw a line in the sand. Taxation and representation should go hand in hand. We have people who have full representation but no taxation. This is basically the opposite problem of taxation without representation. The founders had things to say about both problems.

    Should those that could benefit in the future due to economic loss also be barred from from voting for a politician because that politician supports, among a huge host of other programs, SNAP? Complete nonsense. Further, those under 17 are not adults....and are already disenfranchised from voting for SNAP....but then you guys are arguing for declining benefits for them anyway.....so it is pretty pointless.
    Seems like you're getting carried away a little here. No one votes for SNAP, and minors are not "disenfranchised from voting for SNAP." Disenfranchised is the deprivation of a right. Minors have never voted, they have never had that right, they are not taxpayers, they do not provide for themselves, they cannot contract legally with others, and so forth.

    Because, of course, the reasons minors are not voting is due to "dependency". Right....you got it.
    Minors don't have the rights/duties/privileges adults have. This bothers you?

    Perhaps we should create a Department of Special Disenfranchisement to come up with all sorts of convoluted stop the vote schemes. It is a sure fire way to a better society.

    A good diversion is always recommended.
    I see I'm late to this discussion, but it looks like it already has you so overly emotional that you can't seriously discuss the matter. You're quickly letting fly with sarcasm.

  5. #645
    Sage
    Gimmesometruth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    US Southwest
    Last Seen
    09-13-17 @ 10:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    22,405

    Re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Infinite shades of gray here. It's only a conflict if the person stands to gain to a much much greater extent than others? What about only one "much?" You're trying to draw a line in the sand. Taxation and representation should go hand in hand. We have people who have full representation but no taxation. This is basically the opposite problem of taxation without representation. The founders had things to say about both problems.
    The Founders believed only White male property owners should vote, that slave ownership was correct...yadda yadda. They are dead and buried, it is 2015. WAKE UP.



    Seems like you're getting carried away a little here. No one votes for SNAP, and minors are not "disenfranchised from voting for SNAP." Disenfranchised is the deprivation of a right. Minors have never voted, they have never ahd that right, they are not taxpayers, they do not provide for themselves, they cannot contract legally with others.
    I did not bring up minors.....DERP!



    Minors don't have the rights/duties/privileges adults have. This bothers you?
    What bothers me is trying to equate SNAP beneficiaries to minors.



    I see I'm late to this discussion, but it looks like it already has you so overly emotional that you can't seriously discuss the matter. You're quickly letting fly with sarcasm.
    I get that way when folks post REALLY stupid argument about an essential right being removed and keep their comments really myopic.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  6. #646
    Sage
    roguenuke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Last Seen
    05-17-17 @ 05:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,935

    Re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    First I have not said anybody should not be allowed to vote.

    And I have to present no evidence in order to present and ask questions about a specific concept. You know, that concept than only one or two has yet addressed?
    Then how would your proposition work? There is no real way to separate them without having something damn near like a House of Lords and House of Commons, and even then some politicians would have to be voted on jointed. Plus there will never be anything to vote on if people can't vote on things that affect them. Almost everything has some affect on people in any group.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  7. #647
    Sage
    rabbitcaebannog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:09 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    10,914

    Re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Infinite shades of gray here. It's only a conflict if the person stands to gain to a much much greater extent than others? What about only one "much?" You're trying to draw a line in the sand. Taxation and representation should go hand in hand. We have people who have full representation but no taxation. This is basically the opposite problem of taxation without representation. The founders had things to say about both problems.
    What did they say about taxes and voting?

  8. #648
    Sage

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:53 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    8,151

    Re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    The Founders believed only White male property owners should vote, that slave ownership was correct...yadda yadda. They are dead and buried, it is 2015. WAKE UP.
    Women generally didn't pay taxes back then either. They were regarded as dependents. Dependents don't vote.

    I did not bring up minors.....DERP!

    What bothers me is trying to equate SNAP beneficiaries to minors.
    This isn't even coherent.

    I get that way when folks post REALLY stupid argument about an essential right being removed and keep their comments really myopic.
    It's not myopic. There are adults with varying degrees of dependence on others for survival. On the extreme end of the spectrum, consider profoundly physically and mentally disabled adults. Some are unable to even express a preference in voting. If an adult is adjudicated disabled and has no rights or responsibilities because of that dependence, why do you regard this disabled person's right to vote so essential? And then there are many more adults who are less dependent, but still somewhat dependent on society's other adults to get by. Where on this spectrum should the right to vote be drawn? Or should no such line be drawn? Should we regard voting rights as sacrosanct such that being 18+ years from birth means you absolutely can vote?

    It's a philosophical argument. I am of the opinion that what underlies the voting privilege is being subject to the mandatory contribution to public goods and services provided by the level of government for which one would vote. I am not subject to New York taxes and similarly cannot vote in New York elections.

  9. #649
    Sage
    rabbitcaebannog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:09 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    10,914

    Re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Women generally didn't pay taxes back then either. They were regarded as dependents. Dependents don't vote.
    How do you feel about women voting? You never answered my question about founding fathers and taxes/voting.

  10. #650
    Sage

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:53 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    8,151

    Re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    How do you feel about women voting? You never answered my question about founding fathers and taxes/voting.
    Are you contemplating whether I might be of the opinion that only men should be able to vote? Don't get too excited. To the extent that a person, woman or man, is an autonomous adult, subject to taxes collected by a government, such a person must be allowed to vote in elections to that government (taxation with representation).

Page 65 of 76 FirstFirst ... 1555636465666775 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •