View Poll Results: Should be on welfare be allowed to vote?

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    99 82.50%
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    15 12.50%
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Thread: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

  1. #521
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    Re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    My logic takes away the right to vote from nobody. And the government has been using the tax code to take away people's rights for a very long time now. What I am arguing for is a system in which everybody suffers the same consequences--good or bad--of the votes they cast. And if we don't have the political will to restore that system, then at least make it more difficult for one segment of society to vote to benefit themselves at the expense of others.
    Then people not on welfare shouldnt vote on welfare. If a person is on welfare and loses it to popular vote they suffer the consequences of that vote. ANd really voting to lower your taxes based on how much is spent on the welfare system is voting for self benefit at the expense of others.

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    Re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Then people not on welfare shouldnt vote on welfare. If a person is on welfare and loses it to popular vote they suffer the consequences of that vote. ANd really voting to lower your taxes based on how much is spent on the welfare system is voting for self benefit at the expense of others.
    That is the uncomfortable elephant in the room isn't it though? That people on welfare should not be able to vote on how much welfare they will receive? I would be the first to acknowledge the difficulty in determining how that would be implemented, but that is the issue just the same. Those who vote to receive welfare are doing so at the expense of others because it is those others who give up their resources to provide the welfare. Those on welfare only benefit.

    But I disagree that voting to lower taxes is the same thing. Voting to lower taxes may benefit me, yes, but it also benefits everybody who pays taxes. That is the difference between voting for revision in the tax code as opposed to voting for what others will provide you. Lower taxes may be to the detriment of those on welfare--that has not been shown to be a fact but it is an argument that is made. But it is not at the EXPENSE of those on welfare as those on welfare are not required to provide anything to those paying taxes.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    That is the uncomfortable elephant in the room isn't it though? That people on welfare should not be able to vote on how much welfare they will receive? I would be the first to acknowledge the difficulty in determining how that would be implemented, but that is the issue just the same. Those who vote to receive welfare are doing so at the expense of others because it is those others who give up their resources to provide the welfare. Those on welfare only benefit.

    But I disagree that voting to lower taxes is the same thing. Voting to lower taxes may benefit me, yes, but it also benefits everybody who pays taxes. That is the difference between voting for revision in the tax code as opposed to voting for what others will provide you. Lower taxes may be to the detriment of those on welfare--that has not been shown to be a fact but it is an argument that is made. But it is not at the EXPENSE of those on welfare as those on welfare are not required to provide anything to those paying taxes.
    They don't get to vote directly on how much welfare they receive though. In fact, the wealthy, especially those with interests in keeping their own working costs low, have more influence via campaign funding and lobbying on how much people on welfare get than anyone actually on welfare.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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    Re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Nothing is going to get me to change an argument I believe in very much and that is supportable with reason and logic. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
    The point is, your "arguments" contradict each other, and you fail to recognize this.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Why do I have a lot of money and don't feel like I'm being stolen from? It's crazy. I pay taxes because they keep many people - good and bad - from starvation and death. Sure, some abuse that but in general, it ensures the survival of our species and various groups important to our collective knowledge and humanity.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    That is the uncomfortable elephant in the room isn't it though? That people on welfare should not be able to vote on how much welfare they will receive? I would be the first to acknowledge the difficulty in determining how that would be implemented, but that is the issue just the same. Those who vote to receive welfare are doing so at the expense of others because it is those others who give up their resources to provide the welfare. Those on welfare only benefit.
    First off, I have no idea how "folks on welfare vote for welfare". By what mechanism do you think this happens? SNAP is a longstanding social program, going back to 1939. Secondly, those dollars are spent at GROCERY CHAINS, so are those beneficiaries of federal dollars also going to be excluded from "voting on welfare", whatever the hell that means?

    But I disagree that voting to lower taxes is the same thing. Voting to lower taxes may benefit me, yes, but it also benefits everybody who pays taxes. That is the difference between voting for revision in the tax code as opposed to voting for what others will provide you. Lower taxes may be to the detriment of those on welfare--that has not been shown to be a fact but it is an argument that is made. But it is not at the EXPENSE of those on welfare as those on welfare are not required to provide anything to those paying taxes.
    This is getting back to the same argument implied by you previously, that if we cut food benefits to households with food insecurity, we will somehow see the creation of jobs. Further, "Able Bodied Adults" receiving SNAP are required to be either employed or in training to receive SNAP. The majority of ABA getting SNAP are employed. I find it draconian that you want to starve and remove franchise from millions of low income US citizens, it is all just so Ayn Rand-ish, but there you are.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  7. #527
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    Re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    First off, I have no idea how "folks on welfare vote for welfare". By what mechanism do you think this happens? SNAP is a longstanding social program, going back to 1939. Secondly, those dollars are spent at GROCERY CHAINS, so are those beneficiaries of federal dollars also going to be excluded from "voting on welfare", whatever the hell that means?

    This is getting back to the same argument implied by you previously, that if we cut food benefits to households with food insecurity, we will somehow see the creation of jobs. Further, "Able Bodied Adults" receiving SNAP are required to be either employed or in training to receive SNAP. The majority of ABA getting SNAP are employed. I find it draconian that you want to starve and remove franchise from millions of low income US citizens, it is all just so Ayn Rand-ish, but there you are.

    your sentence makes it sounds as if snap has been on going since the 30's and its not correct.

  8. #528
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    Re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    your sentence makes it sounds as if snap has been on going since the 30's and its not correct.
    As per usual, you have brought nothing to the table other than your beliefs.

    The first US food stamp program was implemented in 1939. What you infer, incorrectly or correctly, is not my responsibility.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    As per usual, you have brought nothing to the table other than your beliefs.

    The first US food stamp program was implemented in 1939. What you infer, incorrectly or correctly, is not my responsibility.
    as stated... but you did not answer........your sentences eludes to that the snap program has been an on going program since 1939.......that is not correct.

    so you are using deception

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    Re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    as stated... but you did not answer........your sentences eludes to that the snap program has been an on going program since 1939.......that is not correct.

    so you are using deception
    As per usual, you have to put words in others mouths to make a pedantic point, I did not write "on going".

    Your stupid persnickety focus upon the continuity of the program, if you want to restrict it to 1961, still makes it a "long standing program", so you have gained nothing....as usual.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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