View Poll Results: Should be on welfare be allowed to vote?

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Thread: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

  1. #421
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    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    You are arguing income inequality that has absolutely nothing to do with what I am arguing.
    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    No, you are arguing wealth inequality and I am arguing something quite different unrelated to wealth inequality. Do have a pleasant evening.
    The topic and wealth inequality are intrinsically linked.

    Those without wealth are those without property. Those without wealth are those who certain people in this thread would seek to strip of a vote. It is these people who are most vulnerable and it is these people that we must fight for to ensure that they do have a voice.
    "Education is the only thing you can do that will change society. Everything else is just a band-aid." - Jacqueline de Chollet
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  2. #422
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    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    No, you are arguing wealth inequality and I am arguing something quite different unrelated to wealth inequality. Do have a pleasant evening.
    You have a very compartmentalized mind.

    If you bar voting for those without home ownership (or anything greater in equity to late 18th century voting practices), you inevitably run into your argument. Your argument stated that we value human rights (we don't, unless explicitly forced to do so) and that anyone who wants to can gain home ownership (again, I offer a class of people who are overwhelmingly prohibited from doing so), thus prohibiting voting on that basis is reasonable. You suffer from an idealistic liberalism which presupposes that mankind is rationale and good. Your liberalism further believes that mankind itself can be intrinsically improved. But conservatives rightly understood that mankind is brutish, ignorant, and needing of brute force to be corrected. I'm stating that you would not only disbar the poor from voting, but would also prohibit most persons with disabilities from voting. You believe that the poor are poor from matters less systemic and more personal. Even though social scientific data for the past 3 quarters of a century places you at a significant intellectual disadvantage, we can give you the benefit of the doubt, because of my trump card. The disabled are systematically prevented from climbing the social ladder because society purposefully designed it that way.

    Or as Nilly put it a couple of hours ago:

    The topic and wealth inequality are intrinsically linked.

    Those without wealth are those without property. Those without wealth are those who certain people in this thread would seek to strip of a vote. It is these people who are most vulnerable and it is these people that we must fight for to ensure that they do have a voice.
    He who is less learned suffers from argumental disadvantage, but as you have no less been pampered on your certainties, I am guessing I cannot sway you on how utterly incorrect you are. The ignorant wallow in their ignorance. C'est la vie.
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 04-25-15 at 02:13 AM.
    "We all of us know down here that politics is a tough game. And I don't think there's any point in being Irish if you don't know that the world is going to break your heart eventually."-Daniel Patrick Moynihan, December 5, 1963

  3. #423
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    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by Nilly View Post
    The topic and wealth inequality are intrinsically linked.

    Those without wealth are those without property. Those without wealth are those who certain people in this thread would seek to strip of a vote. It is these people who are most vulnerable and it is these people that we must fight for to ensure that they do have a voice.
    I accept that you are looking at it from one perspective. I am looking at it and arguing from a very different perspective. We probably aren't going to see it from the same perspective so I'll wish you a good night.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  4. #424
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    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    You have a very compartmentalized mind.

    If you bar voting for those without home ownership (or anything greater in equity to late 18th century voting practices), you inevitably run into your argument. Your argument stated that we value human rights (we don't, unless explicitly forced to do so) and that anyone who wants to can gain home ownership (again, I offer a class of people who are overwhelmingly prohibited from doing so), thus prohibiting voting on that basis is reasonable. You suffer from an idealistic liberalism which presupposes that mankind is rationale and good. Your liberalism further believes that mankind itself can be intrinsically improved. But conservatives rightly understood that mankind is brutish, ignorant, and needing of brute force to be corrected. I'm stating that you would not only disbar the poor from voting, but would also prohibit most persons with disabilities from voting. You believe that the poor are poor from matters less systemic and more personal. Even though social scientific data for the past 3 quarters of a century places you at a significant intellectual disadvantage, we can give you the benefit of the doubt, because of my trump card. The disabled are systematically prevented from climbing the social ladder because society purposefully designed it that way.

    Or as Nilly put it a couple of hours ago:



    He who is less learned suffers from argumental disadvantage, but as you have no less been pampered on your certainties, I am guessing I cannot sway you on how utterly incorrect you are. The ignorant wallow in their ignorance. C'est la vie.
    As I told Nilly, I am arguing from a very different point of view and perspective than you are. And I also prefer to discuss complex subjects with people who are able to do that objectively and without resorting to ad hominem and personal insults. Since you seem to be focused on what you perceive to be my shortcomings and flaws, I will leave you to it. Do have a good night.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  5. #425
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    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    As I told Nilly, I am arguing from a very different point of view and perspective than you are. And I also prefer to discuss complex subjects with people who are able to do that objectively and without resorting to ad hominem and personal insults.
    I could give less than two ****s what perspective you claim to offer.

    If you continue to argue off of absolutely idiotic grounds that people like my brother or any other person who is impoverished doesn't deserve to vote, because of your inappropriate and baseless house metaphor, you deserve every ad hominem you get.

    I too like complex subjects, but I approach it with some semblance of intelligence, self-awareness, consistency, and moral basis. The only thing you have said thus far is "I am talking about something different." You aren't. You're just refusing to accept the consequences of your ideas. Again and again that's all you have done.

    Get off that decrepit high horse of yours and sniff the real world for Christ's sake and stop insulting our intelligence.
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 04-25-15 at 04:43 AM.
    "We all of us know down here that politics is a tough game. And I don't think there's any point in being Irish if you don't know that the world is going to break your heart eventually."-Daniel Patrick Moynihan, December 5, 1963

  6. #426
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    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post
    Should they be allowed to vote while on welfare?
    I do not really think the argument against their voting very strong. On the other hand, it could be said that excluding them would rob democracy of its legitimacy as an optimizing societal tool.

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    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    In other words, should any destitute tramp be allowed to just vote for a living instead of working for one?

  8. #428
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    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    I do not really think the argument against their voting very strong. On the other hand, it could be said that excluding them would rob democracy of its legitimacy as an optimizing societal tool.
    How is democracy legitimate? 50.01% of the people get to rob the 49.99% of the rights and wealth.

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    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post
    How is democracy legitimate? 50.01% of the people get to rob the 49.99% of the rights and wealth.
    Actually legitimacy shouldn't usually be a question of slight majorities.

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    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Yes. If we only allowed the rich to vote we would have what we damn near already have. A system for the rich made by the rich to help the rich. Its pretty much there already so maybe taking away our right to vote because we are poor/on welfare we will resort to action instead of talking.

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