View Poll Results: Should be on welfare be allowed to vote?

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    99 82.50%
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    15 12.50%
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Thread: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

  1. #391
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    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    Madison states ...that if everyone can vote, then those with no property will use the power of their vote by means of injustice to take property from those that do.
    Madison didn't foresee the bulk of government funding coming from other than property taxes. Point dismissed.
    Donald Trump is a pied piper for the stupid.
    In that sense the man is a freakin' genius.

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    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Bad assumption. I would have a problem with them voting no matter what. .
    Of course it is, that is why every person who was proposed such a moronic idea of denying welfare recipients the right to vote tend to be republican voters.



    It's totally relevant. If you don't trust them with your pin number, then why do you trust them with deciding how much of your income is taken, or to decide your rights, or whether you are guilty of a crime.
    Most people do not trust anyone with their pin number.It is not relevant,In societies we pool our tax dollars together for the good of the country to pay for things like national defense, roads and infrastructure and other things.

    Now you're getting it.
    So you want anarchy.Because practically every law requires funding to enforce.


    This is why the Founding Fathers so vehemently opposed democracy
    No they didn't. If they were opposed to democracy no one would be voting.We would be ruled by some inbred little dictators like the people who are ruled by monarchies are. Yes they were opposed to direct democracy.Which is why we have 3 branches of the government and the electoral college and many other things.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  3. #393
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    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    So, if the poor shouldn't get to vote, because it might adversely affect the rich, who ostensibly pay to support the poor, then shouldn't we also take away the ability of the rich to influence legislation that affects the poor to the rich's benefit?
    Donald Trump is a pied piper for the stupid.
    In that sense the man is a freakin' genius.

  4. #394
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    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    That sounds all noble and like, but it's simply not valid. People vote their own interests at the expense others all the time. Why do you think we have "sin taxes"? Why do you think we have exorbitant hotel and rental car taxes? Precisely to make things to our advantage at the expense of others.
    Do people have to stay in hotels or use rental cars? Are not such acts voluntary? So how am I hurting you if I vote for such taxes that are purely voluntary as opposed to voting for taxes that force you to support me? I also pay the 'sin' taxes when I buy a bottle of wine or a pack of cigs (if I drank alcohol and smoked) or when I must stay in a hotel or rent a car. So I am subjecting myself to the same taxes I am voting for everybody else.

    That is a very different thing from voting to have you subsidize or pay for my healthcare or house or food or whatever when you benefit in no way at all from that.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  5. #395
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    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    The United States is not your "home". YOU, or any other individual citizen...is not the "sole" owner. Those who do not pay taxes into the system (which, in and of itself, is a dishonest misnomer) are not "guests", they are co-owners whether or not you like it. The fact that you see that analogy as legitimate inherently indicates a flaw in your thinking.

    I'd perhaps be more understanding if people were somehow claiming that this stance should be taken across the board. That not only that those on welfare shouldn't be able to vote, but that the WEIGHT of ones vote should somehow inherently be tied to how much taxes they pay. Indeed, the guy paying millions of dollars into taxes is being forced to "provide" things like roads, schools, police, national protection, etc for YOU and others who are likely not providing anywhere near the same level as him....should we allow his vote to count 100 times yours for electoral purposes while we're simultaneously disallowing those on welfare from voting?

    Will those on welfare often try to vote for what's going to be best for their life and their situation, not what's necessarily "best for the country"? Absolutely. Guess wha. Middle class or upper class people, paying a good bit of taxes, are going to be doing the same thing. That's what voting is. And that's a right as a CITIZEN people should have...and not one that should be taken away simply because you think that the way THEY benefit of the government is inherently bad, but the way YOU benefit from the government is perfectly okay.
    I rarely agree with your posts but
    "Education is the only thing you can do that will change society. Everything else is just a band-aid." - Jacqueline de Chollet
    "Democracy cannot succeed unless those who express their choice are prepared to choose wisely. The real safeguard of democracy, therefore, is education" - FDR

  6. #396
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    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    Madison states ...that if everyone can vote, then those with no property will use the power of their vote by means of injustice to take property from those that do.
    And if everyone can't vote, then those with property will use the power of their vote by means of injustice to prevent the acquirement of property by those that don't.
    "Education is the only thing you can do that will change society. Everything else is just a band-aid." - Jacqueline de Chollet
    "Democracy cannot succeed unless those who express their choice are prepared to choose wisely. The real safeguard of democracy, therefore, is education" - FDR

  7. #397
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    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Do people have to stay in hotels or use rental cars? Are not such acts voluntary? So how am I hurting you if I vote for such taxes that are purely voluntary as opposed to voting for taxes that force you to support me? I also pay the 'sin' taxes when I buy a bottle of wine or a pack of cigs (if I drank alcohol and smoked) or when I must stay in a hotel or rent a car. So I am subjecting myself to the same taxes I am voting for everybody else.

    That is a very different thing from voting to have you subsidize or pay for my healthcare or house or food or whatever when you benefit in no way at all from that.
    So that's what it's really all about, isn't it? What's in it for YOU.
    Donald Trump is a pied piper for the stupid.
    In that sense the man is a freakin' genius.

  8. #398
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    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    The United States is not your "home". YOU, or any other individual citizen...is not the "sole" owner. Those who do not pay taxes into the system (which, in and of itself, is a dishonest misnomer) are not "guests", they are co-owners whether or not you like it. The fact that you see that analogy as legitimate inherently indicates a flaw in your thinking.

    I'd perhaps be more understanding if people were somehow claiming that this stance should be taken across the board. That not only that those on welfare shouldn't be able to vote, but that the WEIGHT of ones vote should somehow inherently be tied to how much taxes they pay. Indeed, the guy paying millions of dollars into taxes is being forced to "provide" things like roads, schools, police, national protection, etc for YOU and others who are likely not providing anywhere near the same level as him....should we allow his vote to count 100 times yours for electoral purposes while we're simultaneously disallowing those on welfare from voting?

    Will those on welfare often try to vote for what's going to be best for their life and their situation, not what's necessarily "best for the country"? Absolutely. Guess wha. Middle class or upper class people, paying a good bit of taxes, are going to be doing the same thing. That's what voting is. And that's a right as a CITIZEN people should have...and not one that should be taken away simply because you think that the way THEY benefit of the government is inherently bad, but the way YOU benefit from the government is perfectly okay.
    I'll take it a step further... the fact that they see their analogy as legitimate indicate a flaw in their character.
    Donald Trump is a pied piper for the stupid.
    In that sense the man is a freakin' genius.

  9. #399
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    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    So that's what it's really all about, isn't it? What's in it for YOU.
    If that is what you got out of my posts, that's too bad. I honestly don't know how to explain it any better, most especially to people who get it that wrong.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by Nilly View Post
    And if everyone can't vote, then those with property will use the power of their vote by means of injustice to prevent the acquirement of property by those that don't.
    But that has never happened has it. Because in a system like ours in which everybody's unalienable rights are recognized and defended, the more prosperous everybody else is, the more we can prosper. So there is not that much incentive to deny property to anybody else. There was concern on the part of some of the Founders that property would be concentrated in the hands of a few. But in a free market system it just hasn't happened because there is too much profit to be had in buying and selling property.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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