View Poll Results: Should be on welfare be allowed to vote?

Voters
120. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    99 82.50%
  • No

    15 12.50%
  • Other

    7 5.83%
  • Welcome To Costco I Love You

    11 9.17%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 38 of 76 FirstFirst ... 28363738394048 ... LastLast
Results 371 to 380 of 756

Thread: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

  1. #371
    Phonetic Mnemonic ©
    radcen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Look to your right... I'm that guy.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:33 PM
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    31,833

    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    So someone that depends on another person to survive is still paying taxes? Since when?
    You're being obtuse. You'll have to do that by yourself. Carry on.
    Donald Trump is a pied piper for the stupid.
    In that sense the man is a freakin' genius.

  2. #372
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Last Seen
    07-19-17 @ 02:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    60,463

    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    You're being obtuse. You'll have to do that by yourself. Carry on.
    How am I being obtuse? Someone buying you something doesn't mean that you paid taxes, but that likely they paid taxes in order to provide you with whatever it is.

  3. #373
    Sage
    roguenuke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Last Seen
    05-17-17 @ 04:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,935

    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    They are about 3x more likely to vote Democrat than Republican. 300%!

    Is a 300% relative frequency not very telling? Or are you trying to obfuscate?
    Doesn't matter how much more likely. All that matters is that there are still some who do vote Republican, which proves you wrong.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  4. #374
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Zyphlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NoMoAuchie
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    46,676

    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    The point is that people vote for what personally benefits them, which is exactly the problem with democracy.
    I agree that people vote for what personally benefits them.

    PEOPLE.

    Not just welfare reciepients.

    Which is why I disagree with limiting JUST welfare recipients from voting. And it's why I say attempts to do such, and only such, are dishonest when they're attempted to be presented as some means of protecting libtery or the integrity of the country or as a means of stopping people from "voting to benefit themselves".

    As far as it goes, I'd rather live under a political system that agrees with me personally instead of being forced to go along with one that I disagree with entirely.
    Well first...as I've told all the people who bitch about the constitution or not being "modern" with some of our laws or other things.

    No one is "forcing" you to live in this country.

    Second, I expect that everyone would rather live under a political system that agrees with them. And I expect that most people will try to turn the US into such a system; on both sides of the political spectrum.

    I at least have a modicum of respect for those that will acknowledge that what they want isn't in line with the constitution, the political philosohpies the government is built on, or other such thing...but it's what they want, and thus they're pushing for it.

    That's far better than those who attempt to dishonestly hide their intent, their views, thier purposes, and fraudulently try to sheath themselves in the flag, in the constitution, or in the notions of liberty or freedom. Or who act as if their arguments make logical sense in relation to those things, when in reality they only make logical sense as it relates to their ACTUAL political plans.

    If someone wants to come out and say "Hey, I don't want to let Welfare recipients vote because they tend to vote Democrat and I don't want Democrats in control" then I could at least have some respect for that. I wouldn't agree, and I'd think that argument is a horrible one...but I can at least respect they're being honest.

    But if someone wants to come out and say "I won't want Welfare recipients to vote because they're 'takers' who will just use their vote to put into power those who will give them more money" then I've got little to no real respect for that, because it's inconsistent bull**** due to their focus on only one of a MULTITUDE of classes of people who could be percieved as "takers" and who use their vote to put into power those who will cause government money to flow into their pockets.

  5. #375
    Sage
    AlbqOwl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    New Mexico
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:56 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    16,202
    Blog Entries
    2

    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    The United States is not your "home". YOU, or any other individual citizen...is not the "sole" owner. Those who do not pay taxes into the system (which, in and of itself, is a dishonest misnomer) are not "guests", they are co-owners whether or not you like it. The fact that you see that analogy as legitimate inherently indicates a flaw in your thinking.

    I'd perhaps be more understanding if people were somehow claiming that this stance should be taken across the board. That not only that those on welfare shouldn't be able to vote, but that the WEIGHT of ones vote should somehow inherently be tied to how much taxes they pay. Indeed, the guy paying millions of dollars into taxes is being forced to "provide" things like roads, schools, police, national protection, etc for YOU and others who are likely not providing anywhere near the same level as him....should we allow his vote to count 100 times yours for electoral purposes while we're simultaneously disallowing those on welfare from voting?

    Will those on welfare often try to vote for what's going to be best for their life and their situation, not what's necessarily "best for the country"? Absolutely. Guess wha. Middle class or upper class people, paying a good bit of taxes, are going to be doing the same thing. That's what voting is. And that's a right as a CITIZEN people should have...and not one that should be taken away simply because you think that the way THEY benefit of the government is inherently bad, but the way YOU benefit from the government is perfectly okay.
    My argument in no way suggested that any person's vote should count more than any other person's vote.

    My argument is based strictly on the ethics of Citizen A being able to vote for Citizen B to support him/her. My argument is based strictly on the ethics of those who will incur no consequence of any kind from their vote having ability to vote for how much in taxes others will pay, etc.

    My argument is purely philosophical, but it goes to the very heart of what the structure of our social contract and resulting government should be. There is an injustice in a system that allows one group to vote itself benefits at the expense of others.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  6. #376
    Mixed Government advocate
    Master PO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    93,000,000 miles from Earth where its very Hot
    Last Seen
    06-15-17 @ 10:08 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    31,333

    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Madison states ...that if everyone can vote, then those with no property will use the power of their vote by means of injustice to take property from those that do.

  7. #377
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Zyphlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NoMoAuchie
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    46,676

    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    My argument in no way suggested that any person's vote should count more than any other person's vote.
    I know, which is what I am saying is incongruent. There are citizens paying far more in taxes than others and thus "supporting" thos who pay less, as we would not be able to have the full infastructure we have if those people weren't paying what they're paying. Why is it a binary notion of 0 or 1.

    My argument is based strictly on the ethics of those who will incur no consequence of any kind from their vote having ability to vote for how much in taxes others will pay, etc.
    Why is this the only area where you feel that matters? For instance...

    Why should those who don't pay taxes NOT have a vote on legislators that will determine how much others will be taxed...but those who aren't in the military be able to have a vote on legislators that will determine how much money we'll spend on the military or if they'll authorize military action or, in the case of the President, will be albe to direct the military?

    I agree, there's faults in a system that allows one group to vote itself benefits at the expense of others. However, those faults exist across the board. And simply because someone is on welfare does not mean they are not "paying in" to the system. Income Tax is only one method of tax collection.

    Now, I've said for some time on this forum, I am in favor of everyone paying at least some amount of income tax. I definitely think there is a problem with regards to the income tax and the politics that can be played with it when everyone doesn't have skin in the game. But I do not believe that removing a fundamental right of citizenship from people based on whether or not they do pay income tax, or whether or not they recieve a particular government benefit, is absolutely wrong and not the correct answer to correct the issue.

  8. #378
    Sage
    Glen Contrarian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Bernie to the left of me, Hillary to the right, here I am...
    Last Seen
    12-27-16 @ 05:18 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    14,748

    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post
    Should they be allowed to vote while on welfare?
    The fact that such a question would even be asked and debated says a great deal. I would say that even most conservatives would say 'yes!', and of course almost without exception liberals would say 'yes!' And the few who would say 'no' would all be conservative.

    And if one will think about it, those on welfare are not the only ones who are not allowed to vote. There's hundreds of thousands - perhaps millions - of convicted felons who have done their time and paid their debt to society, but are not allowed to vote. And who is it that doesn't want them to vote? Conservatives.
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  9. #379
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Zyphlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NoMoAuchie
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    46,676

    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    Madison states ...that if everyone can vote, then those with no property will use the power of their vote by means of injustice to take property from those that do.
    And those with little property will use the power of their vote by means of injustice to take property form those that do as well. Those with moderate property will likely also. And same even with those with lots of property.

    EVERYONE has the tendancy to use the power of their vote by to gain property that isn't theres. It is a flawed and egotistical thought to believe that somehow those with property are inherently alturistic but those without are not.

    The individual making $200k a year using his vote to put a Senator into power who is likely to award his company with the latest missile contract is using the power of his vote to take property (tax revenue) of others and funnel it into his pocket via his company. Simply because he's using his vote to cause other peoples tax money to make him wealthier in a different manner doesn't change that as it's essence, it's still using his vote to get more of the "property" that was taken from others.

    Which is why I go back to my earlier statements. My issue here isn't just that it's narrowly and hypocritically focusing in on one particular group of a myriad of potential ones, but that some are laughably attempting to do it under the fraudulent cloak of liberty

  10. #380
    Sage
    Geoist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:12 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    8,645

    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Call yourself what you want, it's the same idea.
    No, it really isn't. While there are anarchist-communists/collectivist-anarchists, anarchy =/= communism. My brand of anarchism (mutualism) was inspired by Proudhon, the father of anarchism and staunch critic of communism and state socialism.

    For all his caustic analyses of private property and the political economists, Proudhon is among history’s most outspoken and determined critics of communism... Proudhon’s anticommunism became a leading influence on American individualist anarchism, the centerpiece of which was Benjamin Tucker, publisher of the periodical Liberty.
    Man of Paradox: Pierre-Joseph Proudhon | Libertarianism.org
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

Page 38 of 76 FirstFirst ... 28363738394048 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •