View Poll Results: Should be on welfare be allowed to vote?

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    99 82.50%
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    15 12.50%
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    7 5.83%
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Thread: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

  1. #321
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    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post
    Should they be allowed to vote while on welfare?
    Yes.
    Withholding the right to vote from people who do not contribute to society is a tempting thought, but it is also fatally flawed.

    Determining eligibility to vote on the basis of income will logically segment the voter base into income blocks. As you have already withheld the right to vote from the lowest income block, what is to stop you (over time) from withholding voting rights from the next-lowest block, and the next lowest and so forth, until only the largest income bracket is allowed to vote? It can also be done indirectly, by having a political majority pushing another income bracket into a position where they are unable to sustain themselves without aid, and voila they're out of the picture. All it takes is simple math and applied will. The same goes for systems based on IQ, education levels, etc. and I suspect few people would find the long term outcome desirable.

    If you are truly concerned about people not contributing to society, have them perform community service in return for their benefits.
    (Of course taking into consideration that they can't perform regular work, as that would constitute state-owned cheap labor undercutting the private sector work force.)
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  2. #322
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    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Most of that 49% are seniors on Medicare and Social Security. They split their votes between both parties. Most poor people that get means tested benefits don't actually vote. As I stated earlier, the reason why we have a safety-net in this country is not because poor people are going to the polls and voting for it, its because the upper middle class and the wealthy believe we should have one.
    Yep.

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  3. #323
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    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    Yes, some of the Founders criticized democracy. Some of the Founders also owned slaves. Their personal feelings does not change what system we have (or supposed to have) today.



    I am not talking specifically about direct democracy... only the broader term which includes representative democracy.
    Interesting Franklin perspective.

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  4. #324
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    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    If you don't believe the "vote for more welfare" example, perhaps you can explain California, where Republicans aren't even a blip on the legislative radar any more, and more than 30% of the nations public assistance dollars are spent.
    This is a misleading stat. If you look at just the volume of people then of course California will be singled out because of it's overall population size. The correct way to analyze it is by calculating the percentage of the state population on welfare. California is not even in the top 10. In fact, most of the top 20 states are dominated by conservative legislators.

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  5. #325
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    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by rcart76 View Post
    This is a misleading stat. If you look at just the volume of people then of course California will be singled out because of it's overall population size. The correct way to analyze it is by calculating the percentage of the state population on welfare. California is not even in the top 10. In fact, most of the top 20 states are dominated by conservative legislators.
    LOL. The correct way?

    California has roughly 12% of the nations population, and accounts for over 30% of the combined total spent on public assistance by all states in the U.S.. You're so far off, you're not even in the solar system.

    Is California the welfare capital? | UTSanDiego.com

    That California has a lot of people on welfare was not a secret. In addition to its size, the state has a long history of heavy focus on social services, in part because of years of Democratic dominance in Sacramento.

    But the size of California’s welfare rolls is disproportionate when you consider the state has only 12 percent of the nation’s population. Some of it has to do with the benefits being more generous than in many other states, but experts also point to various economic and social factors.

    There’s more to support the notion that this is the welfare state. California:

    • Pays out one of the highest maximum monthly cash grants to the average family on welfare, $638.

    • Continues aid for children even when the parents lose eligibility.

    • Provides benefits even to some who find a job and helps with child care and transportation while attending school or training.

    Of course then there are the benefits that don't get measured.

    So, explain how the theory of voting for more welfare doesn't apply to California?

  6. #326
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    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post
    Should they be allowed to vote while on welfare?
    No but it's really hard to enforce. What if you were on welfare 1 day out of the election cycle? Would you be disallowed? What if you were on welfare all days but the 1 magic date? Would you be allowed? An even trickier question is this: What is an election cycle?

    The spirit of your question would extend to people receiving military pay, pell grants, food stamps, social security, military retirement pay and so much more. There are many types of transfer payments that goes beyond the AFDC checks. I'm assuming that is what you mean by welfare. A lot of people would be pretty sore at you for excluding the military from voting just to make a point about how dirty those welfare recipients are. I think this is a no go. It wouldn't even make for discussion in congress.

    I was a government employee for 5 years of my life. I didn't vote the entire time because I believed it was immoral for a government employee to vote. I still feel the same way today. By that logic, I would extend that to welfare recipients and social security recipients too. That's just my personal conviction. I cannot imagine any possible way that you could write that into law. That's saying a lot because I have a pretty big imagination.

  7. #327
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    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Pretty well, actually. We have to remember that they instituted the Alien and Sedition Acts with such a limited political class. Both the Alien and Sedition Acts as well as the Patriot Act are a defense of the entrenched and powerful structures of the country against foreign and impoverished entities out there perceived to create havoc and violence unsupporting of the nation-state. Now, you may say that while they indeed passed, there was fervent opposition by non-Federalist Party members. However that is to be granted, they had neither the numbers to immediately block such proposals, nor did they have the support of the more entrenched populace. The Federalist Party was mostly backed by your well-off merchant/investment class, while the Democratic-Republicans were lauded by yeoman farmers, poorer persons, and immigrants. In an American Republic where the wealthy landowners were the true gatekeepers of politics, the more well-off you were and the more entrenched in the region's history you were, the more likely you were to be a Federalist and more likely to support such restrictions on liberty. Aside from a concerned number of Democratic-Republicans who were well-off, their base of support was largely to be found in speaking for the yeoman farmers and the impoverished masses. After all, much of the backbone of the early Party divide centered on how you felt about the U.S. Constitution. A lot of the Democratic-Republican base were appalled by the lack of a Bill of Rights, whereas much of the Federalist-Party's base were quite comfortable without one.
    The Alien and Sedition Acts were done away with in 2 to 3 years. As for the Patriot Act, we're going on more than a decade.

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  8. #328
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    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    Clearly any citizen should have the right to vote. The alternative is ideologically complicated and hard to justify.
    The alternative? You mean the alternatives. It's not democracy or totalitarianism. There are other styles of government.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  9. #329
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    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by Superfly View Post
    I don't like the idea of only certain people being allowed to vote anyway.

    Smacks of the fat rich white guys, who were the only ones allowed to vote, before the 15th and 19th amendment.

    All citizens should be able to vote, despite their station in life.
    Interestingly enough we didn't have the massive deficit problem then like we do now. Interesting.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  10. #330
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    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    Democracy is government by THE PEOPLE, Not just a select few.
    Then let's stop calling this government a democracy. Except for all the others, democracy is the BEST form of government.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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