View Poll Results: Should be on welfare be allowed to vote?

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    99 82.50%
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    15 12.50%
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Thread: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

  1. #291
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    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    No, but by the look of it we have about 3x as many people earning less than 75k per year than more than 75k. That tells me that unless this group is 3x less likely to vote than other groups, then they're going to decide elections.
    No, you don't have 3 times as many earning under 75k a year as you do ver 75k a year. Median income is 51k a year. Roughly 61% of voting households are under 75k a year, but many of those households pay federal income taxes. Moreover, they earn far too much to qualify for any means tested benefits. To qualify for welfare, medicaid, hud and so on you need to be at or near the poverty. Those that actually qualify for those means tested benefits are a small percentage of the electorate and they vote in small numbers. So your premise is flawed you should just accept reality.
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    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    No, you don't have 3 times as many earning under 75k a year as you do ver 75k a year. Median income is 51k a year. Roughly 61% of voting households are under 75k a year, but many of those households pay federal income taxes. Moreover, they earn far too much to qualify for any means tested benefits. To qualify for welfare, medicaid, hud and so on you need to be at or near the poverty. Those that actually qualify for those means tested benefits are a small percentage of the electorate and they vote in small numbers. So your premise is flawed you should just accept reality.
    I think that isn't so much an issue though as is the fact that more than 49% of American households were receiving some sort of direct government benefit in 2012--Mitt Romney actually underestimated a bit with his 47%--and that number has no doubt increased since then especially as more government subsidies kick in for Obamacare. That is our reality. And all any politician has to do to scare people into not voting for somebody is to convince them that his/her opponent will take away those benefits. Even people who know the benefits are not good for the country overall are reluctant to be the patsy who gives up his benefit when everybody else gets to keep theirs.

    It becomes a vicious circle of inadequacy vs dependency, but it keep a huge segment of the population voting for those benefits.

    Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]-na-bq884_number_e_20120525153402-jpg
    Who receives government benefits, in six charts - The Washington Post
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    You tell me how you think something like the Patriot Act would go over when only rich landowners can vote.
    Pretty well, actually. We have to remember that they instituted the Alien and Sedition Acts with such a limited political class. Both the Alien and Sedition Acts as well as the Patriot Act are a defense of the entrenched and powerful structures of the country against foreign and impoverished entities out there perceived to create havoc and violence unsupporting of the nation-state. Now, you may say that while they indeed passed, there was fervent opposition by non-Federalist Party members. However that is to be granted, they had neither the numbers to immediately block such proposals, nor did they have the support of the more entrenched populace. The Federalist Party was mostly backed by your well-off merchant/investment class, while the Democratic-Republicans were lauded by yeoman farmers, poorer persons, and immigrants. In an American Republic where the wealthy landowners were the true gatekeepers of politics, the more well-off you were and the more entrenched in the region's history you were, the more likely you were to be a Federalist and more likely to support such restrictions on liberty. Aside from a concerned number of Democratic-Republicans who were well-off, their base of support was largely to be found in speaking for the yeoman farmers and the impoverished masses. After all, much of the backbone of the early Party divide centered on how you felt about the U.S. Constitution. A lot of the Democratic-Republican base were appalled by the lack of a Bill of Rights, whereas much of the Federalist-Party's base were quite comfortable without one.
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 04-23-15 at 07:19 PM.
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  4. #294
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    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    I think that isn't so much an issue though as is the fact that more than 49% of American households were receiving some sort of direct government benefit in 2012--Mitt Romney actually underestimated a bit with his 47%--and that number has no doubt increased since then especially as more government subsidies kick in for Obamacare. That is our reality. And all any politician has to do to scare people into not voting for somebody is to convince them that his/her opponent will take away those benefits. Even people who know the benefits are not good for the country overall are reluctant to be the patsy who gives up his benefit when everybody else gets to keep theirs.

    It becomes a vicious circle of inadequacy vs dependency, but it keep a huge segment of the population voting for those benefits.

    Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]-na-bq884_number_e_20120525153402-jpg
    Who receives government benefits, in six charts - The Washington Post
    The old, "sure we need to make cuts, but not to what I receive" mindset. Guess I'm just as guilty of that as anyone. But then, what I get is military retirement and disabled veterans benefits. Everything else should be cut out totally before either of those ever get touched. Unearned benefits such as SNAP, Welfare, Medicaid, housing assistance, etc should be cut to zero before retirements and disability, especially service related, take any kind of cut, including stopping cost of living raises.
    Be sure to work hard and get lots of overtime. People on welfare want more steaks and free upgrades to smart phones with unlimited data packages.

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    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    The old, "sure we need to make cuts, but not to what I receive" mindset. Guess I'm just as guilty of that as anyone. But then, what I get is military retirement and disabled veterans benefits. Everything else should be cut out totally before either of those ever get touched. Unearned benefits such as SNAP, Welfare, Medicaid, housing assistance, etc should be cut to zero before retirements and disability, especially service related, take any kind of cut, including stopping cost of living raises.
    And yet there are people who are actually deserving of a hand up, most especially those who have spent their lives being a benefit to society and who, for whatever reason, fall on hard times. And certainly those who stepped up to risk everything in the service of their country in the military are deserving of whatever they were promised when they signed up. But neither should we have a government that goes to the highest bidder of what he or she promises in freebies and benefits.

    And that is the real elephant in the room with this thread topic--obviously one that most or all of the leftwingers and even a lot of conservatives find too politically incorrect and uncomfortable to acknowledge.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  6. #296
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    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    The old, "sure we need to make cuts, but not to what I receive" mindset. Guess I'm just as guilty of that as anyone. But then, what I get is military retirement and disabled veterans benefits. Everything else should be cut out totally before either of those ever get touched. Unearned benefits such as SNAP, Welfare, Medicaid, housing assistance, etc should be cut to zero before retirements and disability, especially service related, take any kind of cut, including stopping cost of living raises.
    What do yu count as unearned? If I get into an accident not my fault that results in me being unable to work after paying into federal taxes for years (and state taxes my whole life) I think it's fair to get some benefits then
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    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Clearly any citizen should have the right to vote. The alternative is ideologically complicated and hard to justify.

    Capital ownership is only part of why people vote. Others do it for moral, social and ideological reasons. You can vote for whoever you want, for any reason you want.

    If we made voting about capital ownernship then at this point less than 10% of America would be able to vote. And clearly the elections are all rigged by corporate lobbying anyway. So we don't need to formalize economic levels to voting, they're already happening.

    What I find disturbing is the typical way people receiving government help are characterized. "Welfare" is a term ignorant people use. It's called government assistance and there are hundreds of programs. Does a permanently disabled person have any less voice in the polity than a veteran? Someone on EI? Someone who just lost everything to hospital bills?

    Once you start separating people from the flock, you get into dangerous 'othering' territory. That kind of divisive thinking must be snipped before it spreads. It's a cancerous plague on democracy and should be called out for what it is... a blight to be collectively quashed.

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    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    Clearly any citizen should have the right to vote. The alternative is ideologically complicated and hard to justify.

    Capital ownership is only part of why people vote. Others do it for moral, social and ideological reasons. You can vote for whoever you want, for any reason you want.

    If we made voting about capital ownernship then at this point less than 10% of America would be able to vote. And clearly the elections are all rigged by corporate lobbying anyway. So we don't need to formalize economic levels to voting, they're already happening.

    What I find disturbing is the typical way people receiving government help are characterized. "Welfare" is an term ignorant people use. Its called government assistance and there are hundreds of programs. Does a permanently disabled person have any less voice in the polity than a veteran? Someone on EI? Someone who just lost everything to hospital bills?

    Once you start separating people from the flock, you get into dangerous 'bothering' territory. That kind of divisive thinking just be snipped before it begins. It's a cancerous plague on democracy and should be called out for what it is... a blight to be collectively quashed.
    I'd basically agree with you, but We don't allow all citizens to vote. We disallow that for sections of the intellectually disabled as well as felons. I think all non-criminal adults should be allowed to vote.
    "We all of us know down here that politics is a tough game. And I don't think there's any point in being Irish if you don't know that the world is going to break your heart eventually."-Daniel Patrick Moynihan, December 5, 1963

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    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    If you don't pay taxes you shouldn't be able to vote.

  10. #300
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    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by chloerenee97 View Post
    If you don't pay taxes you shouldn't be able to vote.

    To which taxes do you refer to? Because I'd like to tell my 100% service connected disabled husband (who served for 20 years) that he shouldn't be able to vote because somebody on the internet says so.

    Certain taxes are waived when you reach a certain disability percentage, mainly 100% service connected. That means that the military jacked you up so bad that they are willing to pay you a lot of money for the rest of your life, just because.

    Call it punitive damages, if you'd like.

    Either way, I'm sure that he'd rather pay property tax, and ad velorum tax, and NOT be disabled as a result of his military career.
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