View Poll Results: Should be on welfare be allowed to vote?

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    99 82.50%
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    15 12.50%
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Thread: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

  1. #201
    Sage

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    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Maybe you should re-read what I wrote and understand what I am saying?
    Towhich...

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl
    This is such a difficult question when it is evaluated objectively and outside of partisan propaganda, political correctness police action, and other emotion-charged responses.

    I have long thought it extremely unfair that those who pay no federal taxes would have ability to vote for people who pledge to raise taxes on everybody else.

    I have long thought it extremely unfair that those who are little or not at all affected by increases in property taxes have ability to vote on initiatives that will raise those taxes for property owners.

    And I have long thought it extremely unfair that those who are supported by the rest of us have ability to vote for those who pledge to keep the gravy train going for those who are supported and thereby increase the burden on those of us who are footing that bill.

    It is the righteous sense that those who pay the bills should be the ones to vote on how much of those bills they are willing to pay.

    And that righteous sense is made very difficult weighed against the concept of one citizen, one vote.
    Yours was an "us -v- them" argument based strictly on financial aspects where the right to vote isn't just a matter of figures on a ledger. There are many other issues that are impacted one way or another by one casting his/her vote as they see fit. Not all of them are monetary in nature. Thus, I stand by my comment (less the personal jab):

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice
    Just because one finds him or herself in a financial bind doesn't mean they stop being a U.S. citizen and should no longer be allowed to participate in the political process.
    But I still think you should rethink then adjust...
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

  2. #202
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    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post
    Should they be allowed to vote while on welfare?
    As long they meet all legal requirements to vote.

  3. #203
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    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    Democracy is the best system we have in order to solve societal issues. I'm sorry but you don't live in a bubble.
    democracy was a form of government does not secure indivdual liberty


    The known propensity of a democracy is to licentiousness which the ambitious call, and ignorant believe to be liberty.
    Last edited by Master PO; 04-23-15 at 02:32 PM.

  4. #204
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    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    Most ridiculous statement I've read all day.

    It's those kinds of comments that make me hesitate in saying "I'm a libertarian."
    What style of libertarian are you? Are you just a Communist with a libertarian label? Or are you a libertarian of the Austrian variety?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  5. #205
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    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    Democracy is the best system we have in order to solve societal issues. I'm sorry but you don't live in a bubble.
    Democracy may precisely be the worse system we have in order to solve societal issues. It's like letting the students decide how the class should be run. It is lawlessness.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  6. #206
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    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    What makes you think that those with wealth wouldn't vote for even more wealth?
    They probably would, but they would be held back by a few things. First, those who are being stolen from would have major objections and threaten to overthrow the system. Second, if those in power can keep that power for a long time and can even pass it on to their children, then they will be interested in the long term economic health of the system instead of just stealing at the present at the expense of long term health (as commonly happens in democracy). Those with a long-term vested interest care about preserving the long term wealth of the country, but evil motives (so that they can steal more wealth for longer instead of a lot just right now) in this case would at least be less harmful than the short term oriented outlook common to democracies.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  7. #207
    Sage

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    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    If people did not vote for the people who voted for that act, then they might be a little more outrage about this spying being forced on them without their consent.
    We'll save this debate for another day. Suffice it to say, I doubt the majority of the voters knew that their elected members to Congress would bring such a bill to the House or Senate floor (let alone take it up for a vote). If folks knew in advance that their privacy would be even remotely violated in this way before casting their vote, it's doubtful many would have voted the bill's drafters and subsequent supporters into office. Of course, we have to take into account domestic events in a post-9/11 America at the time. People wanted to feel safe and secure from terrorism hitting our shores. Catch-22...maybe. But the right to vote isn't restricted to votes on monetary policy alone. There are many other issues that affect the lives of the public-at-large. Taxes of any sort and entitlement spending are just two of thousands of other issues voters should be concerned about.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

  8. #208
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    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    This is allowed to vote.





    That's exactly the problem. People think only about here and now, and thus forget about long term consequences. They vote for welfare, even though the long term effect of the subsidization of poverty is to create more of it. They vote for social security even though the long term effect of it is to impoverish those who are currently working. It's exactly the lack of long term thinking that is the problem.
    You're confusing a pledge to assist those in the middle-class (income/tax bracket) with people seeking handouts. All the woman in the video said (essentially) is that she voted for Obama because he would do things to help lesson the economic burden she was experiencing. Doesn't mean she was expecting some federal handout. You read too much into her statement, sir.

    Now, was she naive to believe he'd provide the kind of help she hoped would come? Well, gas prices are down now. Many people can now refinance their homes thanks to the HARP program the Obama Administration devised. So, I'd say from her perspective her vote was properly cast.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

  9. #209
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    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    We'll save this debate for another day. Suffice it to say, I doubt the majority of the voters knew that their elected members to Congress would bring such a bill to the House or Senate floor (let alone take it up for a vote). If folks knew in advance that their privacy would be even remotely violated in this way before casting their vote, it's doubtful many would have voted the bill's drafters and subsequent supporters into office. Of course, we have to take into account domestic events in a post-9/11 America at the time. People wanted to feel safe and secure from terrorism hitting our shores. Catch-22...maybe. But the right to vote isn't restricted to votes on monetary policy alone. There are many other issues that affect the lives of the public-at-large. Taxes of any sort and entitlement spending are just two of thousands of other issues voters should be concerned about.
    And the vast majority of the public have shown themselves irresponsible when it comes to most issue. Why else do we run such large deficits that we can never pay back? It's because politicians are trying to win votes and have absolutely no regard for the long term health of the people they represent.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  10. #210
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    re: Should people on welfare be allowed to vote?[W:504]

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    You're confusing a pledge to assist those in the middle-class (income/tax bracket) with people seeking handouts. All the woman in the video said (essentially) is that she voted for Obama because he would do things to help lesson the economic burden she was experiencing. Doesn't mean she was expecting some federal handout. You read too much into her statement, sir.
    I'm reading too much into the statement? She wants a free house and free gas. It really is that simple.

    Now, was she naive to believe he'd provide the kind of help she hoped would come? Well, gas prices are down now. Many people can now refinance their homes thanks to the HARP program the Obama Administration devised. So, I'd say from her perspective her vote was properly cast.
    To the detriment of the long term prospects of the country. Specifically with housing, this has happened.


    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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