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Should animals have more rights/protection/etc

Should animals have more rights/protection/etc

  • Yes

    Votes: 23 39.0%

  • No

    Votes: 27 45.8%

  • Other

    Votes: 9 15.3%
  • Total voters
    59
ttwtt78640 said:
The only animal that I have had a problem with was a neighbor's (mistreated) large male dog - it escaped its chain and bit my dog through his pen fence. I captured the dog (it was not aggressive to me), tied it up and gave animal control a call - they took the dog after they observed its habitat, lack of tags and general poor health. Stray cows are generally not a problem if they stay off of the roadways - I can usually identify their source (by the ear tags) and have the phone numbers of the local ranchers which are generally quick to get them back into their pasture and repair the fencing.
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Sounds like you don't have any problems. :confused:
 
Dovkan said:
In reference, I'd like you to know that breeding insects on an industrial scale is actually possible, if properly supported, the price would be adjusted accordingly. (I think?)
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In addition to a primitive mental life as described above, there is some
evidence that insects can experience pain and suffering. The earthworm
nervous system, for example, secretes an opiate substance when the
earthworm is injured. Similar responses are seen in vertebrates and are
generally accepted to be a mechanism for the attenuation of pain. On the
other hand, the opiates are also implicated in functions not associated
with analgesia, such as thermoregulation and appetite control. Nevertheless,
the association of secretion with tissue injury is highly suggestive.
Earthworms also wriggle quite vigorously when impaled on a hook. In
possible opposition to this are other observations. For example, the
abdomen of a feeding wasp can be clipped off and the head may go on
sucking (presumably in no distress?).

Singer quotes three criteria for deciding if an organism has the
capacity to suffer from pain: 1) there are behavioral indications, 2)
there is an appropriate nervous system, and 3) there is an evolutionary
usefulness for the experience of pain. These criteria seem to satisfied
for insects, if only in a primitive way.

Now we are equipped to tackle the issue of insect rights. First, one
might argue that the issue is not so compelling as for other animals
because industries are not built around the exploitation of insects. But
this is untrue; large industries are built around honey production, silk
production, and cochineal/carmine production, and, of course, mass insect
death results from our use of insecticides. Even if the argument were
true, it should not prevent us from attempting to be consistent in the
application of our principles to all animals. Insects are a part of the
Animal Kingdom and some special arguments would be required to exclude
them from the general AR argument. - Animal Rights FAQ: Section Five

Still want to protect just the fuzzy cute ones?
 
Dovkan said:
Of course you can, just make sure it's done ethically, you can look into the methods yourself.
Zoos, unfortunately, in today's world, are a necessity, and many don't practice cruelty.
The difference is, in factory farms, they are separated to be slaughtered, etc..
The realistic solution? More enforcement and protection for animals.
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The question is this, what is "ethical"? That is my whole point, the definition in-of-itself varies widely between the Animal Rights Movement. And if reform what should that reform look like?
 
spud_meister said:
I think cars should be serviced frequently. That doesn't mean I think cars have the right to regular services. Animals cannot understand the concept of rights, they cannot exercise rights. I'm advocating limiting peoples behaviour because I don't like it when people are cruel to animals.
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How does ability to exercise rights make a difference? Kids cannot understand the concept, but we give them rights. Old people with dementia can't really fully comprehend their rights, but they still have them.
 
Black Dog said:
In addition to a primitive mental life as described above, there is some
evidence that insects can experience pain and suffering. The earthworm
nervous system, for example, secretes an opiate substance when the
earthworm is injured. Similar responses are seen in vertebrates and are
generally accepted to be a mechanism for the attenuation of pain. On the
other hand, the opiates are also implicated in functions not associated
with analgesia, such as thermoregulation and appetite control. Nevertheless,
the association of secretion with tissue injury is highly suggestive.
Earthworms also wriggle quite vigorously when impaled on a hook. In
possible opposition to this are other observations. For example, the
abdomen of a feeding wasp can be clipped off and the head may go on
sucking (presumably in no distress?).

Singer quotes three criteria for deciding if an organism has the
capacity to suffer from pain: 1) there are behavioral indications, 2)
there is an appropriate nervous system, and 3) there is an evolutionary
usefulness for the experience of pain. These criteria seem to satisfied
for insects, if only in a primitive way.

Now we are equipped to tackle the issue of insect rights. First, one
might argue that the issue is not so compelling as for other animals
because industries are not built around the exploitation of insects. But
this is untrue; large industries are built around honey production, silk
production, and cochineal/carmine production, and, of course, mass insect
death results from our use of insecticides. Even if the argument were
true, it should not prevent us from attempting to be consistent in the
application of our principles to all animals. Insects are a part of the
Animal Kingdom and some special arguments would be required to exclude
them from the general AR argument. - Animal Rights FAQ: Section Five

Still want to protect just the fuzzy cute ones?
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Oh for the love of god, that website is psychotic and has no bearing.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
The question is this, what is "ethical"? That is my whole point, the definition in-of-itself varies widely between the Animal Rights Movement. And if reform what should that reform look like?
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That's the thing, everyone disagrees on many things regarding this, but we can figure it out, we've done it before.
 
Josie said:
Would "freedom from cruelty" include not eating them? No one hunts cow...
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Is "tipping" hunting? You have to sneak up on them (kinda stalk) so you don't wake them, then tip.
 
Animals do not have rights but animals need to be protected from abuse and extinction because they are needed for food and other uses. When they are gone, man will be from Earth as well.
 
pbrauer said:
Animals do not have rights but animals need to be protected from abuse and extinction because they are needed for food and other uses. When they are gone, man will be from Earth as well.
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Animals don't have rights? :shock:
 
Dovkan said:
That's the thing, everyone disagrees on many things regarding this, but we can figure it out, we've done it before.
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For anything to get done in this country you need unified demands and that is the biggest problem with the animal rights campaigns.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
For anything to get done in this country you need unified demands and that is the biggest problem with the animal rights campaigns.
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We didn't have unified demands with civil rights...
 
Dovkan said:
Oh for the love of god, that website is psychotic and has no bearing.
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So when confronted with the facts that insects are animals and have the ability to experience pain and suffering... they are "psychotic."

So where do insects fall on this scale? Probably further away from mammals and even cephalopods. But how do you KNOW? We don’t. New studies are coming out and it will be exciting to follow them.

As of right now the animal testing regulations draw a line between vertebrates and non-vertebrates (with the exceptions of some cephalopods). I do not think any research to date warrants a discussion of moving the line, but at the same time I do not think we should rule out the possibility that insects are capable of pain, albeit through different neurological pathways. - Relax. I'm an Entomologist | Do insects feel pain?

So again I ask...

Just the cute fuzzy ones?
 
Dovkan said:
We didn't have unified demands with civil rights...
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The thing is we kinda did... 1.)Equal service. 2.)Voting rights. Those were the two big issues rallied around.
 
Black Dog said:
So when confronted with the facts that insects are animals and have the ability to experience pain and suffering... they are "psychotic."

So where do insects fall on this scale? Probably further away from mammals and even cephalopods. But how do you KNOW? We don’t. New studies are coming out and it will be exciting to follow them.

As of right now the animal testing regulations draw a line between vertebrates and non-vertebrates (with the exceptions of some cephalopods). I do not think any research to date warrants a discussion of moving the line, but at the same time I do not think we should rule out the possibility that insects are capable of pain, albeit through different neurological pathways. - Relax. I'm an Entomologist | Do insects feel pain?

So again I ask...

Just the cute fuzzy ones?
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Not even close, at all.
Relax. I'm an Entomologist | Do insects feel pain?
 
Dovkan said:
And all animal rights activists agree: - End cruelty/pain
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The only way to ensure an animal is not going to suffer from cruelty and pain is to kill them all. Not a good plan...
 
Collection of videos relevant to help formulate an opinion if undecided, very disturbing on some videos.
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUZ1YLhIAg8 - How it should be, in my opinion
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGZlkKdCazQ - ^
(Disturbing) (100's of other independent ones.)
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQK4261GXyg
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXKjm0IZSX8
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_vqIGTKuQE
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUz5-Hi3x_g
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4qQNi3WZdQ
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dmEw4iJmHA
Not all factory farms do this, but every single one does not provide adequate space, and that's giving them more then they deserve.
 
Black Dog said:
OK so no answer? Just link to my link? Did you even bother to read it? You could not have in that amount of time.

So I guess you have no real argument?

Thanks for nothing.
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I did read it, and it fails miserably. Maybe you should look at actual science.
 
Dovkan said:
Animal rights is the idea that some, or all, non-human animals are entitled to the possession of their own lives, and that their most basic interests – such as the lack of suffering – should be afforded the same consideration as similar interests of human beings.
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Dovkan said:
Well, as someone who advocates veganism.. Freedom from cruelty means that the animal has access to a decent life, free from pain, and the animal's death is quick and as painless as possible.
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The bolded points out a contradiction in your thinking. A creature who has a right to 'the possession of their own life' has that right violated even if the death is as 'quick and painless as possible.'
 
radcen said:
How does ability to exercise rights make a difference? Kids cannot understand the concept, but we give them rights. Old people with dementia can't really fully comprehend their rights, but they still have them.
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Because there is, or was, the potential to understand rights. Animals are dumb, there's no point giving them rights.
 
Redress said:
The only way to ensure an animal is not going to suffer from cruelty and pain is to kill them all. Not a good plan...
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Oh come on redress, no one literally means ending all cruelty and pain, that's literally not possible, it means passing laws/enforcing/regulating to help go towards alleviating the pain/cruelty experienced.
 
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