View Poll Results: Should animals have more rights/protection/etc

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  • Yes

    23 38.98%
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    27 45.76%
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Thread: Should animals have more rights/protection/etc

  1. #231
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    Re: Should animals have more rights/protection/etc

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    We're really dodging the point here - that a certain evolution level must be attained before a species should be granted rights that are directly relating to these cognitive abilities, cognitive abilities that animals just don't have.
    What does cognitive ability, as you put it, have to do with basic rights such as not being property, being allowed to live and not be dealt with cruelly?

    Because you know damn well that humans with very low cognitive or social intelligence (newborns, mentally retarded, down syndrome, aspberger's) are guaranteed these rights, simply by way of being OUR species in the 21st century. Such people used to be butchered or left to die on a hill. Was that wrong? Today we condemn it. Where does "cognitive ability" = not property fit into

    einstein:table as IQ57:dog?

    I have a much more simplified and imo consistent standard of property and respect: Is it a living creature or not?

  2. #232
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    Re: Should animals have more rights/protection/etc

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    Maybe you don't make clear you're talking about aggressive dogs as opposed to little pet dogs? Compare a doberman (police dog) to a chuwawa and there's a vast diff in potential risk to humans. Also consider whether the dog is trained by its owner or we're talking about a complete stranger coming up to it. Nonetheless, to me the key is if it's acting aggressively and an actual threat, same as any other creature.
    People are far more likely to kill a non-aggressive and non-venomous snake than they are to kill a dangerous and aggressive dog, because people don't like little snakies. People think dogs are more deserving of rights than snakes, because dogs are smarter and show emotion. But I get disagreed with when I think dogs and snakes are both equally deserving of rights, and neither deserve them because they're not as smart as humans.
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  3. #233
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    Re: Should animals have more rights/protection/etc

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    People are far more likely to kill a non-aggressive and non-venomous snake than they are to kill a dangerous and aggressive dog, because people don't like little snakies. People think dogs are more deserving of rights than snakes, because dogs are smarter and show emotion. But I get disagreed with when I think dogs and snakes are both equally deserving of rights, and neither deserve them because they're not as smart as humans.
    That is quite possible but for some, it might be lack of familiarity and thus inability to discern which snakes are deadly and which are not. I can tell a small dog is not, but a small snake? I honestly wouldn't know

  4. #234
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    Re: Should animals have more rights/protection/etc

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    So if you saw an injured snake, you would try to help it in the same way you would a dog?
    I moved a small snake out of my driveway so I wouldn't run it over, does that count? When I get baby lizards in my house, I catch them and take them outside. In fact, there was one on my ceiling in my bathroom over the shower/tub so I put towels in the tub in case it fell. Sure enough, next morning took the towels out of the tub and there was the little lizard unharmed. Then I thought, you're too fvcking stupid to live and I flushed it down the toilet. J/k, I took it outside.


    I respect them because I recognise them for what they are. They're animals, they don't need rights because they can't understand the concept (they're deserving of protection though because I like them). I'll add though, certain social animals do recognise rights, the alpha wolf has a right to eat first from a kill, the alpha baboon has a right to **** all the females, but somehow I don't think that's the sort of rights you think they should have.

    If you were to write a bill of rights for the entire animal kingdom, what would it say?
    Your constant references to animals being rock stupid with zero rights to be treated or regarded a certain way do not indicate respect. If you had a dog, I think you'd be nice enough to it but I doubt you could view this lowly and stupid creature as part of the family, (which is totally fine, like I say not everyone sees animals as I do). The thing is, dogs are more astute then you'd ever give them credit for and they're social creatures. They pick up on things, though I'm sure you don't believe that. I think you're right to stick with reptiles.

  5. #235
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    Re: Should animals have more rights/protection/etc

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    People are far more likely to kill a non-aggressive and non-venomous snake than they are to kill a dangerous and aggressive dog, because people don't like little snakies. People think dogs are more deserving of rights than snakes, because dogs are smarter and show emotion. But I get disagreed with when I think dogs and snakes are both equally deserving of rights, and neither deserve them because they're not as smart as humans.
    What a bizarre thing to base the notion of who/what is "deserving" of rights.

  6. #236
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    Re: Should animals have more rights/protection/etc

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Your constant references to animals being rock stupid with zero rights to be treated or regarded a certain way do not indicate respect. If you had a dog, I think you'd be nice enough to it but I doubt you could view this lowly and stupid creature as part of the family, (which is totally fine, like I say not everyone sees animals as I do). The thing is, dogs are more astute then you'd ever give them credit for and they're social creatures. They pick up on things, though I'm sure you don't believe that. I think you're right to stick with reptiles.
    You've lost the point I was making somewhere in your emotional hyperbole. Animals don't deserve rights because they cannot understand the concept. I've gotta go to work, I'll expand my post later.
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  7. #237
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    Re: Should animals have more rights/protection/etc

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    What a bizarre thing to base the notion of who/what is "deserving" of rights.
    What do you base it on?
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  8. #238
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    Re: Should animals have more rights/protection/etc

    Yes I do.
    We don't kill children in orphanages.
    Animals are just as important.

  9. #239
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    Re: Should animals have more rights/protection/etc

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    I'm an animal lover too, but I can only afford to keep reptiles at the moment, I refuse to get an animal that I may not be able to adequately care for, soon as I can afford to I will be getting dogs and cats and horses and God knows what else. But, back to the thread, we're both arguing creatures deserve rights based on intelligence, I just set the bar higher than you.


    I thought I was the one who set the higher bar. You were the one talking about frogs.
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  10. #240
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    Re: Should animals have more rights/protection/etc

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    You've lost the point I was making somewhere in your emotional hyperbole. Animals don't deserve rights because they cannot understand the concept. I've gotta go to work, I'll expand my post later.
    Then human newborns or mental retards don't deserve rights either, i take it?

    In a way, declaration of rights such as the constitution are in place to protect the vulnerable among us, whether they appreciate or conceptualize those rights or not. I don't see why that shouldn't extend to non human life

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