View Poll Results: Is outsourcing jobs overseas patriotic?

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Thread: Is outsourcing jobs overseas patriotic?

  1. #221
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    Re: Is outsourcing jobs overseas patriotic?

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Money is created by lending or by the government. What you are talking about isn't demand, it's desire or want, when I say demand, that means actual realized demand, as in sales.
    Ah. So when you say "demand", you are assuming "supply", as in "supply of the surplus resources necessary to engage in trade.

    It works in the US
    No, it doesn't. Witness the baby boomer retirees.

    but we didn't used to have to do that, until wages for the vast majority stagnated during the mid 1970's.
    We don't have to do that, and wages have grown since the 1970s. What has happened is that A) households have broken up and B) our desires have outgrown our incomes just as our ability to delay pleasure has plummeted.

    I suspect that you and I have a very different view of what wealth is.
    I would say that net is definitely involved. Debt isn't a benefit.
    “In America we have a two-party system,” a Republican congressional staffer told a visiting group of Russian legislators. “There is the stupid party. And there is the evil party. I am proud to be a member of the stupid party. Periodically, the two parties get together and do something that is both stupid and evil. This is called: bipartisanship."

  2. #222
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    Re: Is outsourcing jobs overseas patriotic?

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Do you really believe that an increase in minimum wage to $67/mth caused buyers to switch to lower labor cost countries? Really? There are countries where the min wage is less than $67/mth?
    Probably to a marginal extent, depending on where it was before, but yes. When you look for a supplier, don't you typically go where the prices are cheapest, all else being equal?

    Even the article you linked to said "Please note that this doesn’t mean that the minimum wage should not be raised. "
    Because that is his opinion.

    Also, the unemployment rate in Bangladesh has historically always been very low, around 4% - basically full employment, so I doubt that if anyone does lose their job it will take very long to find a new one.

    Did you not notice that this article only referenced a couple of cherry picked employers who said that they may modernize their plants as a response to the higher min wage? You think that technology is a bad thing? Wouldn't adding technology make them more productive?
    Now you're hitting onto something. Of course technology will make them be more productive. Do you think that a low minimum wage is the reason why they haven't had much investment in technology?

    Also, with a GDP growth rate exceeding 12%, it is only common sense that the population should grow wealthier over time, and increased pay is part of that.
    Because wages tend toward marginal productivity! You can't make a third world nation prosperous by demanding a wage comparable to a developed first world nation. All you'll do is increased unemployment and make the population worse off than it was before.

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  3. #223
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    Re: Is outsourcing jobs overseas patriotic?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    We now here calls that the U.S. must confront the rise of China. However, China's rise has been facilitated by the outsourcing of U.S. manufacturing to places like China, and selling those cheap goods to U.S. consumers. As such, is the outsourcing of jobs overseas patriotic?
    Not really, but it sure helps to keep prices low.
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  4. #224
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    Re: Is outsourcing jobs overseas patriotic?

    Nothing immoral about it. I own a business. If it's cheaper to produce goods in China than it is to produce them in the U.S., then economics dictate that I must do so, I have little to no choice if I want to remain competitive.

    As long as people buy on price, manufacturers will be forced to look for the cheapest way to produce the products people want.

    One could ask whether it's immoral to BUY products made in China or elsewhere. That argument has more legs IMO.

    Unless you are willing to donate or throw out every product you own that was made overseas, you have no right to cast stones as you are the fuel driving the problem.

    If you're one of the rare few willing to pay more for Anerican goods, good on you.

    Final point: I own a business and that business is my property. I have no moral or legal obligation to hire anyone, regardless of their nationality. If I choose to hire someone in China, what does that matter to you? It's my money, I can spend it how I want.

  5. #225
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    Re: Is outsourcing jobs overseas patriotic?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    That would be a function of your knowledge about the way the products were manufactured, what is available for you to purchase, what you can afford, and the time you have to do the research. Depending on how all that shakes out, it may or it may not be.
    All products that are made in China are marked "made in China."

    They have to be, it's the law.

    There you go...so now go through your house and throw away everything you own that was made overseas, and sin no more. Then you can cast stones at the rest of us.

    If you're willing to live with less material wealth in order to do right by Anerica, I applaud you. You'd be one of a kind.

  6. #226
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    Re: Is outsourcing jobs overseas patriotic?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    ...

    Now you're hitting onto something. Of course technology will make them be more productive. Do you think that a low minimum wage is the reason why they haven't had much investment in technology?
    Low wages have probably contributed to the lack of technology, yes. this lack of technology keeps their productivity low, and thus they do not become wealthy.

    Because wages tend toward marginal productivity! You can't make a third world nation prosperous by demanding a wage comparable to a developed first world nation. All you'll do is increased unemployment and make the population worse off than it was before.
    If a third world country had the technology and internal demand that developed countries have, they wouldn't be third world would they? We have already agreed that low wages is holding back the investment in technology, and low investment in technology is the cause of their proverty, thus paying higher wages is the solution.

    Name one country which started paying higher wages to it's productive workers that didn't increase in wealth.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  7. #227
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    Re: Is outsourcing jobs overseas patriotic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    All products that are made in China are marked "made in China."

    They have to be, it's the law.

    There you go...so now go through your house and throw away everything you own that was made overseas, and sin no more. Then you can cast stones at the rest of us.

    If you're willing to live with less material wealth in order to do right by Anerica, I applaud you. You'd be one of a kind.
    The bulk of the value of many products which are marked "made in china" is often created right here in the USA.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  8. #228
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    Re: Is outsourcing jobs overseas patriotic?

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    The bulk of the value of many products which are marked "made in china" is often created right here in the USA.
    And try shopping for nearly anything made in America. It's not as though one has a choice much.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  9. #229
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    Re: Is outsourcing jobs overseas patriotic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    And try shopping for nearly anything made in America. It's not as though one has a choice much.
    Even if it is labeled "made in XXX", most of the value of that product was actually created in the US.

    If we purchase a $200 shopping cart of "made in china" products at walmart, you can bet that $175 of the value of those products was actually made in America.

    When I purchase tshirts for $2 each that have "made in honduras" tags, customize them, and sell them for anywhere from $4 each to $30 each - most of the value of those shirts was created here, not in honduras.

    We actually import a much smaller percentage of the products sold in our retail stores than most countries do. Some countries import upwards of 95% of the retail products they sell. And most every country has exports, including the US. Those export are simply traded for our imports.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  10. #230
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    Re: Is outsourcing jobs overseas patriotic?

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Even if it is labeled "made in XXX", most of the value of that product was actually created in the US.

    If we purchase a $200 shopping cart of "made in china" products at walmart, you can bet that $175 of the value of those products was actually made in America.

    When I purchase tshirts for $2 each that have "made in honduras" tags, customize them, and sell them for anywhere from $4 each to $30 each - most of the value of those shirts was created here, not in honduras.

    We actually import a much smaller percentage of the products sold in our retail stores than most countries do. Some countries import upwards of 95% of the retail products they sell. And most every country has exports, including the US. Those export are simply traded for our imports.
    Don't know that I'd disagree with anything there. Does that mean that you support outsourcing jobs?
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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