View Poll Results: Sue or not?

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Thread: Suing for use of product at unapproved event?

  1. #21
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    Re: Suing for use of product at unapproved event?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Bold: I'd like to see this history please.
    http://scholarship.law.marquette.edu...8&context=mulr

    The concept of public accommodation laws have their roots in English Common Law, and were part of early American law as well.. Explicit anti-discrimination laws for protected classes are relatively new, meaning "nearly 50 years old."


    As for the rest, lots of things have been legal or illegal for 50+ years in the US and has/had SCOTUS backing....
    Moving the goalposts, I see. Nice try.

    You posited a slippery-slope or declinist claim: "I believe in peoples right to association, right to free speech etc etc. All of which are seemingly being dismantled, or people are attempting to dismantle them." I'm pointing out that anti-discrimination laws are nearly 50 years old, and the only real change lately is extending protections on the basis of sexual orientation. Even that isn't a slam-dunk, as many states don't consider sexual orientations as protected classes.


    Doesn't mean that those cases/laws are in the right. So making an appeal to authority isn't a valid excuse.
    Fortunately, I'm not making any such claim. I'm certainly not saying "the laws exist, therefore the laws are ethical." Nor can any of my comments be reasonably construed as making any such assertion.

  2. #22
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    Re: Suing for use of product at unapproved event?

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    http://scholarship.law.marquette.edu...8&context=mulr

    The concept of public accommodation laws have their roots in English Common Law, and were part of early American law as well.. Explicit anti-discrimination laws for protected classes are relatively new, meaning "nearly 50 years old."

    Moving the goalposts, I see. Nice try.

    You posited a slippery-slope or declinist claim: "I believe in peoples right to association, right to free speech etc etc. All of which are seemingly being dismantled, or people are attempting to dismantle them." I'm pointing out that anti-discrimination laws are nearly 50 years old, and the only real change lately is extending protections on the basis of sexual orientation. Even that isn't a slam-dunk, as many states don't consider sexual orientations as protected classes.

    Fortunately, I'm not making any such claim. I'm certainly not saying "the laws exist, therefore the laws are ethical." Nor can any of my comments be reasonably construed as making any such assertion.
    I concede that public accommodation laws are fairly old. But by any chance did you fully read the link that you provided? I have a feeling that you did not or you would have provided a different link. You should fully read it as it fully supports everything that I have stated to date. Including my statement of our Rights being dismantled. Ironic yes?

    And yes, by referring to common law you are making an appeal to authority.

    Edit note: And no, there has been no moving of the goal posts. If you look at my posts on this subject you'll note that I've said the same thing several times.
    Last edited by Kal'Stang; 04-15-15 at 02:30 PM.
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  3. #23
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    Re: Suing for use of product at unapproved event?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Unless you become contractually obligated to use said product for a set of uses / purposes then a business has no right to dictate what you do with said product.

    For instance: I publish books so I do a lot of cover art. I purchase the right to use images. In order to use them legally I have to abide by the rules in the contract. Example: I can't use the images for anything which might be deemed pornographic. If I do use an image for said purpose the company has a list of repercussions.

    If I do I therefor am in violation of my user agreement and can be sued.

    However, if I go to a bakery and pick up a box of donuts there is often no user agreement. It's a fair exchange for monies and the only stipulations (often printed on the receipt) are the use policy / return policy / and the warranty (if there is one at all).

    So - if a business wants to provide food and write up a legal contract that the customer must sign in order to purchase said food - they can do so. But only if they have done so can such an entity hold the customer liable for said uses.
    This makes a lot of sense, or next we'll have mattress manufacturers sue hookers for the misuse of their product.

  4. #24
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    Re: Suing for use of product at unapproved event?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    I concede that public accommodation laws are fairly old. But by any chance did you fully read the link that you provided?
    I agree, it's a bit amusing to cite an opponent of civil rights laws to point out how long they've been around. However, I linked it to show that public accommodation laws have been around for a long, long time, so I'm OK with it. I was also very clear that the nature of those laws changed substantially in the 1960s.

    I also noticed that it was written in 1968. But hey, if you want to use that document as a source to claim that we have lost rights between 1968 and 2015, go right ahead....


    And yes, by referring to common law you are making an appeal to authority.... there has been no moving of the goal posts. If you look at my posts on this subject you'll note that I've said the same thing several times.
    Then apparently you aren't reading the posts in this thread.

    - I responded to a brief post of yours claiming that "our rights are under attack!"
    - I pointed out that public accommodation laws have been around for hundreds of years, and that the most dramatic changes were made ~50 years ago, i.e. refuting the declinist argument.
    - You asked for proof of my historic claim (a fair request) and for no apparent reason claimed I was basing the validity of civil rights laws on an "appeal to authority." That is where you moved the posts, because absolutely nothing in Post #16 addressed the validity or legitimacy of civil rights/public accommodation laws. The ONLY reason I mentioned past laws was counter the slippery slope argument.

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    Re: Suing for use of product at unapproved event?

    Quote Originally Posted by brothern View Post
    You know I do understand Christians are bit whacked out; but which Christian honestly believes that serving muffins to the KKK is the moral equivalent of middle aged lesbians getting married?
    Because muffins have feelings.
    If my post offends you, I deeply Apple-O-Jize.

  6. #26
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    Re: Suing for use of product at unapproved event?

    I voted no because the idea, on it's face, is ****tarded.

    If a gun manufacturer can't be sued (Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act) when a purchaser uses a gun to commit a crime (a protection I support, by the way), I see no reason why or how that can be turned around where a manufacturer could sue a purchaser for using the product in a manner inconsistent with the manufacturer's wishes or values.
    “Now it is not good for the Christian’s health to hustle the Aryan brown,
    For the Christian riles, and the Aryan smiles and he weareth the Christian down;
    And the end of the fight is a tombstone white with the name of the late deceased,
    And the epitaph drear: “A Fool lies here who tried to hustle the East.”

  7. #27
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    Re: Suing for use of product at unapproved event?

    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    I voted no because the idea, on it's face, is ****tarded.

    If a gun manufacturer can't be sued (Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act) when a purchaser uses a gun to commit a crime (a protection I support, by the way), I see no reason why or how that can be turned around where a manufacturer could sue a purchaser for using the product in a manner inconsistent with the manufacturer's wishes or values.
    Its generally based on the premise that a cake is a form of art, which would give the "artist" (in this case the baker) say over how their product is used. Afterall, that is part of the contention being used for why they should not be involved in a same sex marriage by baking/decorating a cake for them.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  8. #28
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    Re: Suing for use of product at unapproved event?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Its generally based on the premise that a cake is a form of art, which would give the "artist" (in this case the baker) say over how their product is used. Afterall, that is part of the contention being used for why they should not be involved in a same sex marriage by baking/decorating a cake for them.

    but thats a different argument

    can you commission an artist to do a job that they dont want to do?

    that is the argument? and i have zero idea if artists have to follow the current public accommodation laws

    if they have a store front i would gather they do....but anyone know?
    “Most of the shadows of this life are caused by standing in one's own sunshine.”

    Ralph Waldo Emerson

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