View Poll Results: Do you support the H.R.1466 - Surveillance State Repeal Act?

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Thread: Do you support the H.R.1466 - Surveillance State Repeal Act?

  1. #21
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    Re: Do you support the H.R.1466 - Surveillance State Repeal Act?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    So your excuse for not repealing the whole thing is because it may not be politically beneficial for future politicians to enact what you may think are the good parts of the patriot act.Sounds like Nancy Pelosi lying her ass off saying she is against domestic spying while supporting unconditional funding of the NSA.
    No. I think that we shouldn't repeal the whole thing because the vast majority of it is sound, useful, reasonable intelligence law and I don't believe attempts to reinstitute the good parts would be successful anytime soon.

    The REASON I don't think those attempts would be successful is because it would not be politically beneficial to politicians to push for reintroducing those portions, and thus few would likely do it let alone vote in favor of it.

    It's like saying I'm for legal immigration, but against those who do it illegally. My solution for dealing with those doing it illegally isn't to say "**** immigration entirely" and toss the whole thing out; it's to deal with the problems that are inherent as they come up.

    Similarly, I have an issue with unconstitutional domestic survelliance and believe that efforts should absolutely be made to combat that. However, I don't have an issue with survelliance as a broad concept. Just like I have an issue with illegal immigratoin into this country, but that doesn't mean I have an issue with immigration as a broad concept.

  2. #22
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    Re: Do you support the H.R.1466 - Surveillance State Repeal Act?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    No. I think that we shouldn't repeal the whole thing because the vast majority of it is sound, useful, reasonable intelligence law and I don't believe attempts to reinstitute the good parts would be successful anytime soon.

    The REASON I don't think those attempts would be successful is because it would not be politically beneficial to politicians to push for reintroducing those portions, and thus few would likely do it let alone vote in favor of it.
    If the vast majority of it is useful and not unconstitutional then it should be able to pass on it's own merit and politicians should have nothing to fear from passing those things.

    It's like saying I'm for legal immigration, but against those who do it illegally. My solution for dealing with those doing it illegally isn't to say "**** immigration entirely" and toss the whole thing out; it's to deal with the problems that are inherent as they come up.

    Similarly, I have an issue with unconstitutional domestic surveillance and believe that efforts should absolutely be made to combat that. However, I don't have an issue with survelliance as a broad concept. Just like I have an issue with illegal immigration into this country, but that doesn't mean I have an issue with immigration as a broad concept.
    Not comparable.A lot of the domestic spying was justified as the result of patriot act, so elected officials can fraudulently claim they were following the law(anything that violates the Constitution is illegal). Illegal immigration is illegal because it's illegal there is nothing on the books that allow for illegal immigration.Because if there was something that allowed illegal immigration then it wouldn't be called illegal immigration in the first place.Illegal immigration is happening due to the fact our elected officials are turning a blind eye.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  3. #23
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    Re: Do you support the H.R.1466 - Surveillance State Repeal Act?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    If the vast majority of it is useful and not unconstitutional then it should be able to pass on it's own merit and politicians should have nothing to fear from passing those things.
    So basically you've learned nothing of politics in your 9 years of posting heavily on a political message board. You're seriously suggesting that bills pass, and public perception of a bill relies, simply on it's "merit"?

    That's funny.

    PATRIOT has been lambasted from the left and right in some fashion since it's inception. The attacks on it have generally not been detailed, they have not been nuanced, they have not been specific. Rather, they've been generic in nature, attacking the bill as a whole. To believe that a politician attempting to pass a bill that is 90% of what PATRIOT was originally is not going to have his opponents raking him over the coals and trying to tie his name to the overall negative stigma of it (REGARDLESS of it's merit), and to think that the public isn't going to simply view it as PATRIOT redux, with all the same stigma attached, then you're being laughably naive and ridiculously unrealistic in a political sense.

    Not comparable
    Of course its not...can't accept that your claim that I'm like Nancy Pelosi equally applies to your pet issue. Much easier to just wave it away. You're right, acting unconstitutionally is illegal. As such, illegal survelliance is illegal and wrong and should be combatted. But that doesn't mean we should harm LEGAL survelliance that is in line with the constitution. It is ABSOLUTELY possible to oppose illegal uses of survelliance powers and illegal survelliance laws, while still strongly supporting the governments ability and the legal foundation for them to engage in survelliance.

  4. #24
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    Re: Do you support the H.R.1466 - Surveillance State Repeal Act?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    So basically you've learned nothing of politics in your 9 years of posting heavily on a political message board. You're seriously suggesting that bills pass, and public perception of a bill relies, simply on it's "merit"?
    I realize that in my 9 plus years posting on political message boards that people will support blatantly unconstitutional things and claim it is constitutional or that it is justified.


    That's funny.

    PATRIOT has been lambasted from the left and right in some fashion since it's inception. The attacks on it have generally not been detailed, they have not been nuanced, they have not been specific. Rather, they've been generic in nature, attacking the bill as a whole. To believe that a politician attempting to pass a bill that is 90% of what PATRIOT was originally is not going to have his opponents raking him over the coals and trying to tie his name to the overall negative stigma of it (REGARDLESS of it's merit), and to think that the public isn't going to simply view it as PATRIOT redux, with all the same stigma attached, then you're being laughably naive and ridiculously unrealistic in a political sense.



    Of course its not...can't accept that your claim that I'm like Nancy Pelosi equally applies to your pet issue. Much easier to just wave it away. You're right, acting unconstitutionally is illegal. As such, illegal survelliance is illegal and wrong and should be combatted. But that doesn't mean we should harm LEGAL survelliance that is in line with the constitution. It is ABSOLUTELY possible to oppose illegal uses of survelliance powers and illegal survelliance laws, while still strongly supporting the governments ability and the legal foundation for them to engage in survelliance.
    Again if this Do you support the H.R.1466 - Surveillance State Repeal Act?-emot-airquote-giflegalDo you support the H.R.1466 - Surveillance State Repeal Act?-emot-airquote-gif surveillance is justified and not unconstitutional then elected officials will have no problem reenacting it.

    So keep telling yourself that the whole thing shouldn't be scrapped.
    Last edited by jamesrage; 04-16-15 at 04:03 PM.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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