View Poll Results: Will you vote for Hillary as our next President

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  • Yes

    29 23.02%
  • No

    97 76.98%
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Thread: Will you vote for Hillary as our next President? [W:302]

  1. #501
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    Re: Will you vote for Hillary as ourr next President?

    Quote Originally Posted by EdwinWillers View Post
    Ok, regale us then with all the options Democrats have put forth to solve the "it costs too much" argument such that they can be for voter ID laws.
    The party itself? Or likely voters?

    The party itself isn't going to cede what high ground it has on the issue, and I don't blame them.

    Dem-leaning people have offered numerous compromises, mostly involving increasing access to said ID.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

  2. #502
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    Re: Will you vote for Hillary as ourr next President?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    The party itself? Or likely voters?
    The Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    The party itself isn't going to cede what high ground it has on the issue, and I don't blame them.
    What "high ground" does the Democrat party hold w/r to the cost of people being able to acquire an ID?
    Who chimes "No Absolutes!" chimes absolutely.

    zoom zoom

  3. #503
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    Re: Will you vote for Hillary as ourr next President?

    Quote Originally Posted by EdwinWillers View Post
    The Party

    What "high ground" does the Democrat party hold w/r to the cost of people being able to acquire an ID?
    We've been over this. Voter ID is a push to solve a non-existent problem, and the people who would be marginalized are those who cannot afford or otherwise lack access to the ID deemed "proper" by the people passing the laws. Solve THOSE problems, and maybe we'll entertain mandatory voter ID.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

  4. #504
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    Re: Will you vote for Hillary as ourr next President?

    [QUOTE=sKiTzo;1064563717]So, you think that not meddling in the affairs and conflicts of the middle east and focusing only on national defense rather than a contrived offense program translates into isolationism? What's the insane rhetoric? He advocates peaceful world trade, building strong ties universally and defending our borders. To simply refrain from being the world agitator and creating war out of phony pretense (again and again and again) is not isolationism (and certainly not insane).[QUOTE]


    Whether we like it or not, how some of the conflicts in the middle east turns out affects US national security. If Iran gets nukes....that will definitely affect our national security. We cannot just cover the US is a protective bubble or force field and not worry about anyone else. As for some of Ron Paul's insane rhetoric........one example is: "They attacked us on 9/11/01 because we invaded their country.

    Of course they're not nation building. I was being facetious using that term because that's the guise they go under when they invade countries under false pretense. They "liberated" Iraq. They "liberated" the Libyans.
    Libya is a prime example that american and european news is not just censored, but designed and fabricated to deceive us into supporting the atrocities that are being committed.
    I am not going to argue with you over whether it was or was not a good idea to get involved in particular conflicts. My point is that if we do get involved, the objective should be clear. We should defeat the enemy and stick around long enough to make sure the government we leave behind is viable. And if necessary, we should assist them in rebuilding their infrastructure. We should not leave a power vacuum behind.

    There were no homeless in Libya because their "insane dictator" built homes for his people because in Libya, housing is a right of the people. Under this insane dictator, energy was free to Libyans - there was no power bill every month. Education was free (including college). Medical was free. If you wanted to study abroad or needed a medical treatment that wasn't available there, the Libyan government paid for it. Loans were at 0% interest by law. If you wanted to be a farmer you were given a plot of land, farming equipment, seeds, and whatever you needed. If you bought a car, the Libyan government covered 50% of the cost.
    However the dictator could also send troops or police to your front door and imprison or kill you for something as simple as "rhetoric against the state".

    You can really see that these people needed to be liberated from this insane dictatorship. If you were wondering how the Libyan government could manage such exorbitant support of it's people, it's because Libya has one of the largest oil reserves and it was a nation truly for the people and shared its wealth among the people. Also, they didn't have a Rothschild central bank. They issued their own debt-free money. After Gaddafi was brutally lynched and the Libyan people were "liberated", the first thing that happened was a Rothschild central bank was installed.

    It is now known that when they said Gaddafi was "bombing his own people", the russians, who were monitoring from space, said the evidence shows that NO SUCH THING HAS OCCURED. Does this give you an idea of the level of deception being perpetrated by the establishment using the media as their most important and successful tool?
    And you trust the country that has printed propaganda in decades in a state run news organization known as "Pravda" to tell you the truth?

    We have bigger problems than to worry about giving money that we don't have to other countries. If we are "cutoff" by a country because we didn't have any free money for them, there's no loss there anyway.

    The problem we have in america is such that it has become a world problem. It's a problem that has gone rogue (if you know what I mean). It involves much more than just having a new president. Lobbyists for special interest groups who buy favors from our representatives in congress are our biggest enemies, hence, we have congress "sleeping with the enemy". The other major problem are the people themselves, who, like you said, are way too content being distracted. It's an ignorance they will regret woefully, but won't have to until they are physically unable to be distracted anymore when problems are manifest in and around the space they occupy. In other words, when it's too late.
    There is a big corruption issue in American politics. However the biggest single issue that motivates it is not lobbyists. Lobbyists are going to lobby. The problem is entrenched power in the US Congress. And it will continue at the current level until a constitutional amendment is passed enacting congressional term limits.

  5. #505
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    Re: Will you vote for Hillary as ourr next President?

    Quote Originally Posted by EdwinWillers View Post
    Well, again, then the issue isn't the voter ID law, is it? The issue is whatever the difficulty may be, for whomever, or however few people there be that are having [whatever] difficulties obtaining an ID.
    Precisely.

    My issue with voter ID isn't that it requires ID, but rather the difficulties acquiring and retaining an ID.

    Quote Originally Posted by EdwinWillers View Post
    This makes it sound like one has to travel across the country in a stretch limo to get an ID card.
    Yes.

    Relatively speaking, that is accurate. It may be relatively easy for me to get a piece of mail, drive 15-20 mins to a Driver's Licence Center, pay 10-30 bucks (or none, depending), and get my DL renewed.

    But not everyone can do that as easily.

    I'm not at all sure what would be required if you wanted to get an ID in the first place, since they simply use the old DL whenever I need to renew.


    Quote Originally Posted by EdwinWillers View Post
    Well, we make accommodations for far, far greater financial difficulties in every other aspect of life, why not for something as simple as an ID? I mean goodness - what's a new ID cost anyway? $10? $15? $20? And what the heck does metro bus fare cost? $1.50? $2.50? And how often does one need to renew a license? Every other year? 5 years? I'm up to 10 years before I have to renew now.

    Do you realize, particularly in context, just how ridiculous that ["it's too costly"] argument sounds?
    But that's 10-20 bucks you could spend on something else.

    That's 1-3 hours work at min wage.

    Quote Originally Posted by EdwinWillers View Post
    I find it very interesting that those who clamor so hard and loud for government largesse in virtually every other area of the lives of the lower end of the economic scale - be it homes, cars/transportation, clothing, cell phones, taxes, food, healthcare... you name it - that those same people can't see a way... nay REFUSE TO EVEN CONSIDER ALTERNATIVES to something which, economically speaking, is but a mere fraction of the cost virtually every other accommodation they've fought for.

    Frankly, that alone casts a very dark shadow on the true motive behind the refusal to require voters to show a valid ID to vote.
    Which is why any kind of ID requirement for voting HAS to be absolutely free.

    That includes organizing paperwork and people, transporting them to the ID place, or whatever is needed.

    Anything else is questionable.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  6. #506
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    Re: Will you vote for Hillary as ourr next President?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    We've been over this. Voter ID is a push to solve a non-existent problem, and the people who would be marginalized are those who cannot afford or otherwise lack access to the ID deemed "proper" by the people passing the laws. Solve THOSE problems, and maybe we'll entertain mandatory voter ID.
    What problems? Are you suggesting that minorities and the elderly never get drivers licenses? state ID cards? Social Security benefits? Medicare or Medicaid benefits? Never open a bank account? Never cash checks? They need valid photo ID for all of those options. And the cost? Most minorities spends more on tobacco and liquor. The elderly spend more on irregularity products. To listen to the left, one would think photo ID costs $500.00. The disenfranchise argument is as phony as a three dollar bill. The democrat party should be ashamed.

  7. #507
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    Re: Will you vote for Hillary as ourr next President?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    What does one have to do with the other? Stay on topic, please
    It's a fair comparison, Kobie. The democrats in 2000 and 2004 acted as if they were scared that republicans would steal a few votes on Diebolds. Yet now those same democrats are saying: "Votor fraud? What voter fraud?"

  8. #508
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    Re: Will you vote for Hillary as ourr next President?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    The party itself? Or likely voters?

    The party itself isn't going to cede what high ground it has on the issue, and I don't blame them.

    Dem-leaning people have offered numerous compromises, mostly involving increasing access to said ID.
    I hate to be the one to break this to you, Kobie, however the democrats own the low ground on the voter ID issue. They are attempting to play the race card in a very shameful and racist manner.
    If I were a minority, I would be offended. And considering that I have the option of retiring and receiving social security benefits, I am a Senior. I see no difficulties in maintaining a valid photo ID.

  9. #509
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    Re: Will you vote for Hillary as ourr next President?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    We've been over this. Voter ID is a push to solve a non-existent problem, and the people who would be marginalized are those who cannot afford or otherwise lack access to the ID deemed "proper" by the people passing the laws. Solve THOSE problems, and maybe we'll entertain mandatory voter ID.
    You are shamefully suggesting that they cannot afford what they likely already have.

  10. #510
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    Re: Will you vote for Hillary as ourr next President?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    The party itself? Or likely voters?

    The party itself isn't going to cede what high ground it has on the issue, and I don't blame them.

    Dem-leaning people have offered numerous compromises, mostly involving increasing access to said ID.
    What are they suggesting? Roving DMV trucks to take applications door to door?

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