View Poll Results: Should the US launch a military strike on Iran?

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Thread: Should the US launch a military strike on Iran?

  1. #21
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    Re: Should the US launch a military strike on Iran?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    You should have followed that link I posted. More from Fareed:
    Iran is already attacking US troops and allies through proxies and the support of terror groups throughout the regions/ That ship has sailed long ago. Whether or not sanctions could survive the attack is another matter. The degradation of their facilities lessens the need for sanctions in the short term, which have proven to be marginally effective at best to date. The financial capability to rebuild their facilities is less pertinent than the human capital and time necessary to do so. Just how many times will Iran build up their castle if we make it clear we'll knock it down and with successively greater force. My broader point stands however, Cenk is simply fear mongering and being intellectually lazy as usual. An invasion is not a inevitability, nor is a prolonged military campaign.

  2. #22
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    Re: Should the US launch a military strike on Iran?

    Quote Originally Posted by a351 View Post
    Drones are not indiscriminate. In fact, they're among the most precise and humane forms of warfare in the history of mankind.
    Precisely indiscriminate.

    41 men targeted but 1,147 people killed: US drone strikes

    41 men targeted but 1,147 people killed: US drone strikes the facts on the ground
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

  3. #23
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    Re: Should the US launch a military strike on Iran?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    You should have followed that link I posted. More from Fareed:
    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    I question those figures. This is another source that has kept very close track of these attacks:

    Pakistan Strikes | The Long War Journal

    Check the home page, too--the whole site is very informative.

  4. #24
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    Re: Should the US launch a military strike on Iran?

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    I question those figures. This is another source that has kept very close track of these attacks:

    Pakistan Strikes | The Long War Journal

    Check the home page, too--the whole site is very informative.
    ]

    Research isn't finding a website that agrees with you.

    Here's the issue with the American drone wars, and there are many more countries in which the strikes have been conducted than Pakistan. Our intelligence is poor and our reaction time is slow in countries like Yemen and Somolia where we have no great military presence. We get information from locals which often consists of person x in house y, with no information about non combatants in the same house. Often the intelligence is used by locals to settle personal scores.


    Two influential human rights groups say they have freshly documented dozens of civilian deaths in U.S. drone strikes in Pakistan and Yemen, contradicting assertions by the Obama administration that such casualties are rare.

    In Yemen, Human Rights Watch investigated six selected airstrikes since 2009 and concluded that at least 57 of the 82 people killed were civilians, including a pregnant woman and three children who perished in a September 2012 attack.

    In Pakistan, Amnesty International investigated nine suspected U.S. drone strikes that occurred between May 2012 and July 2013 in the territory of North Waziristan. The group said it found strong evidence that more than 30 civilians were killed in four of the attacks.
    Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits, human rights groups say - The Washington Post
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

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    Re: Should the US launch a military strike on Iran?

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    ]

    Research isn't finding a website that agrees with you.

    Here's the issue with the American drone wars, and there are many more countries in which the strikes have been conducted than Pakistan. Our intelligence is poor and our reaction time is slow in countries like Yemen and Somolia where we have no great military presence. We get information from locals which often consists of person x in house y, with no information about non combatants in the same house. Often the intelligence is used by locals to settle personal scores.




    Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits, human rights groups say - The Washington Post
    Research isn't finding sources that agree with you, and I don't accept any of the sources you cite as accurate. That's all I want to say about it, because it is not the topic of the thread.

  6. #26
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    Re: Should the US launch a military strike on Iran?

    Quote Originally Posted by a351 View Post
    Drones are not indiscriminate. In fact, they're among the most precise and humane forms of warfare in the history of mankind.
    I've got the bad feeling that you're serious.
    "How do I know what I think 'till I hear what I say?"
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  7. #27
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    Re: Should the US launch a military strike on Iran?

    Hell yeah! Cuba too, and Venezuela. Yemen, Nigeria, Sudan... just stay away from Russia, China, North Korea, anyone who has any kind of real threat.
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  8. #28
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    Re: Should the US launch a military strike on Iran?

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    ]

    Research isn't finding a website that agrees with you.

    Here's the issue with the American drone wars, and there are many more countries in which the strikes have been conducted than Pakistan. Our intelligence is poor and our reaction time is slow in countries like Yemen and Somolia where we have no great military presence. We get information from locals which often consists of person x in house y, with no information about non combatants in the same house. Often the intelligence is used by locals to settle personal scores.




    Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits, human rights groups say - The Washington Post
    Although I admire your pacifist demeanor I get the feeling that you think we should use troops instead of drones which is not only stupid and ineffective it is an insult to the value of American lives. If you naively think we can just sit back and let the plotters plot. I beg to differ.

  9. #29
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    Re: Should the US launch a military strike on Iran?

    Quote Originally Posted by a351 View Post
    Iran is already attacking US troops and allies through proxies and the support of terror groups throughout the regions/ That ship has sailed long ago. Whether or not sanctions could survive the attack is another matter. The degradation of their facilities lessens the need for sanctions in the short term, which have proven to be marginally effective at best to date. The financial capability to rebuild their facilities is less pertinent than the human capital and time necessary to do so. Just how many times will Iran build up their castle if we make it clear we'll knock it down and with successively greater force. My broader point stands however, Cenk is simply fear mongering and being intellectually lazy as usual. An invasion is not a inevitability, nor is a prolonged military campaign.
    The suggestion that the U.S. would need to invade Iran on the ground to destroy its nuclear weapons facilities is one of the specters people who want to appease Tehran like to conjure up, dishonestly, to make any military action look impossibly reckless. The facts say otherwise. No military action is completely predictable, but there is not much doubt that the U.S. could quickly cripple Iran's ability to shoot at the planes attacking its nuclear weapons and missile facilities. Even while the air defenses were still intact, some of those planes might have bombed their targets and be flying away without anyone on the ground knowing just where they were.

    Iran's air defenses have been probed and studied enough to know they are weak and poorly integrated, with much of the equipment outdated. We know where all the network's main components are--airfields, aircraft in hangars, anti-aircraft missile sites, guidance and warning radars, control centers, communication lines--the works. Almost before an attack on those defenses was even detected, they would already be overwhelmed. A few things might survive, especially anti-aircraft guns, but not enough to be a serious threat.

    Anti-aircraft missiles and their guidance radars are very vulnerable, and cruise missiles launched from outside Iran's airspace could destroy many of them. Iran only has about thirty fighters that could present any significant threat to attacking planes, and most of them would probably never even get off the ground. Any that did would be lucky even to get close enough to fire before they were shot down. And once a nation's air defenses are blinded and ruined, planes can bomb anything in it without too much risk to themselves or their pilots.

    A fraction of this country's air power could destroy every one of the five facilities that are vital to that program--including Fordow--in a single strike. One reputable study concluded that it would take only four well-placed 2,000 lb. bombs--a fourth of what a single B-2 could carry--to destroy the heavy water and future plutonium installation at Arak. A couple 30,000 lb. bombs would ruin the centrifuges buried at Fordow. Another couple would destroy the centrifuge galleries at Natanz. The Bushehr reactor complex is not a very hard target either--recall that in 1981, it only took a couple direct hits by 2,000 lb. bombs from Israeli planes to destroy the reactor at Tuwaitha in Iraq. It would only take another small fraction of this country's air power also to destroy all the sites where Iran's ballistic missiles are, and all the facilities involved in their testing and production.
    Last edited by matchlight; 04-11-15 at 12:42 AM.

  10. #30
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    Re: Should the US launch a military strike on Iran?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Mal View Post
    Hell yeah! Cuba too, and Venezuela. Yemen, Nigeria, Sudan... just stay away from Russia, China, North Korea, anyone who has any kind of real threat.
    The real threat comes from people who wring their hands and never want to do anything at all, using the excuse that it's too dangerous. The most dangerous policy of all is to sit back and do nothing in the face of a clear threat. The U.S. did not back down even to the Soviet Union in October, 1962 in Cuba--and yet now, the very idea of the U.S. using military force on even a third-rate opponent seems to get the anti-Americans in a lather. Their hearts are with the savages of the world, because they share their hatred of this country.

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