View Poll Results: Should the US launch a military strike on Iran?

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    4 9.76%
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    31 75.61%
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Thread: Should the US launch a military strike on Iran?

  1. #151
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    Re: Should the US launch a military strike on Iran?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    But of course the conservative line is that the Dems in Congress voted for it...and they refuse to acknowledge that the Dems who voted for it had been lied to just like even Colin Powell had been lied to.
    True enough. But I would also point out that there have been democratic politicians who have long since claimed that the position of opposition was so vilified that not supporting Bush's war was highly dangerous politically as you would be demonised as anti-American, etc., etc., I'm sure you recall. Not that that's any excuse. I was in complete opposition at the time to Bush's war, and it was tough at work as I was ridiculed by co-workers and they began calling me Taliban John. The president of France dared to point out that if the US attacked Iraq without a UNSC consensus, it would be a victory for might makes right. And for that the capital cafeteria changed the name of French fries to freedom fries, you may recall as well.

    But here's the deal. I listened to interviews on the radio at the time of FBI field agents that were complaining that memos sent to FBI headquarters were being ignored or dismissed as trivial! I payed attention to that. Then there was the flight school in Wisconsin that called the FBI two or three times to report that there was men of Middle Eastern dissent that wanted to learn to fly jets, but weren't interested in learning to land or take off!!!!!! Then there was the man who new Niger better than anyone else who was tasked with the mission to go there and determine whether or not they had sold Saddam yellow cake, and when he ( I speak of Joe Wilson of course ) returned he sent his report to the WH which concluded diffinitively that there had been no sale. When the president included in the SOTUA that Niger had sold Saddam yellow cake, he was furious, and outed Bush in an op-ed in the New York Times, which we all know earned him the outing of his wife Valarie Plame.

    So, democrats could have used the same deductions that the rest of us did in opposing the war, but their careers were paramount, so they don't get a pass where I'm concerned. And I don't believe Powell either.
    Last edited by Montecresto; 04-14-15 at 07:38 PM.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  2. #152
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    Glen Contrarian's Avatar
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    Re: Should the US launch a military strike on Iran?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    True enough. But I would also point out that there have been democratic politicians who have long since claimed that the position of opposition was so vilified that not supporting Bush's war was highly dangerous politically as you would be demonised as anti-American, etc., etc., I'm sure you recall. Not that that's any excuse. I was in complete opposition at the time to Bush's war, and it was tough at work as I was ridiculed by co-workers and they began calling me Taliban John. The president of France dared to point out that if the US attacked Iraq without a UNSC consensus, it would be a victory for might makes right. And for that the capital cafeteria changed the name of French fries to freedom fries, you may recall as well.

    But here's the deal. I listened to interviews on the radio at the time of FBI field agents that were complaining that memos sent to FBI headquarters were being ignored or dismissed as trivial! I payed attention to that. Then there was the flight school in Wisconsin that called the FBI two or three times to report that there was men of Middle Eastern dissent that wanted to learn to fly jets, but weren't interested in learning to land or take off!!!!!! Then there was the man who new Niger better than anyone else who was tasked with the mission to go there and determine whether or not they had sold Saddam yellow cake, and when he ( I speak of Joe Wilson of course ) returned he sent his report to the WH which concluded diffinitively that there had been no sale. When the president included in the SOTUA that Niger had sold Saddam yellow cake, he was furious, and outed Bush in an op-ed in the New York Times, which we all know earned him the outing of his wife Valarie Plame.

    So, democrats could have used the same deductions that the rest of us did in opposing the war, but their careers were paramount, so they don't get a pass where I'm concerned. And I don't believe Powell either.
    Problem is, you're painting the Dems with a broad brush. Remember, even during Obama's first term there were Democratic politicians who were strongly conservatives. Not only that, but they ALL were being fed intel from the Bush administration that we now know (and that the Bush administration knew then) was questionable at best.

    Any time you have the people being fed only one side of the story, they're generally going to believe what they are being told. Hermann Goering, the #2 Nazi in Hitler's Germany, described it better than any other way I've ever heard it:

    "Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on
    a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of
    it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people
    don't want war neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in
    Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the
    country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to
    drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist
    dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no
    voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.
    That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked,
    and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the
    country to danger. It works the same in any country."


    Pay attention to that next-to-last sentence - "All you have to do is tell them that they are being attacked, denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger." Goering was right, plain and simple.

    And this is PRECISELY what was done in the days coming up to the Iraq invasion - ANYBODY who was against the invasion was roundly castigated and condemned for lack of patriotism...and so any politician who wanted to keep his or her job had to suddenly support the war.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  3. #153
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    Re: Should the US launch a military strike on Iran?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Problem is, you're painting the Dems with a broad brush. Remember, even during Obama's first term there were Democratic politicians who were strongly conservatives. Not only that, but they ALL were being fed intel from the Bush administration that we now know (and that the Bush administration knew then) was questionable at best.

    Any time you have the people being fed only one side of the story, they're generally going to believe what they are being told. Hermann Goering, the #2 Nazi in Hitler's Germany, described it better than any other way I've ever heard it:

    "Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on
    a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of
    it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people
    don't want war neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in
    Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the
    country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to
    drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist
    dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no
    voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.
    That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked,
    and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the
    country to danger. It works the same in any country."


    Pay attention to that next-to-last sentence - "All you have to do is tell them that they are being attacked, denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger." Goering was right, plain and simple.

    And this is PRECISELY what was done in the days coming up to the Iraq invasion - ANYBODY who was against the invasion was roundly castigated and condemned for lack of patriotism...and so any politician who wanted to keep his or her job had to suddenly support the war.
    Great quote Glen, thanks for posting that. I agree completely, he was right! But there were those people like just to point out one man, Von Trapp, who was wealthy, and gave it all up, escaping with just the cloths on his back, such was his TRUE patriotism, and opposition to joining the Nazi party. And, as I told you in the post above, I personally dealt with the claims of anti-American, and lack of patriotism by co-workers, and the labelling of Taliban John. There certainly are those that have the character to oppose what's wrong on principle and take the heat. And most dems weren't. As to the lies, as I told you above, I didn't accept the lies, I listened to the flight school, the FBI field agents, Joe Wilson, the Downing Street memo, and for that I called bull**** on Bush, and I will always hold democrats accountable for not having the balls to do the same.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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