View Poll Results: Will the U.S. Asia Pivot and activity in Ukraine push Russia and China together?

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Thread: Will the U.S. Asia Pivot and activity in Ukraine push Russia and China together?

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    Will the U.S. Asia Pivot and activity in Ukraine push Russia and China together?

    The U.S. has provoked Russian ire by its activity in Ukraine which have resulted in the current civil war. Now the U.S. is positioning itself to confront the rise of China with its "Asia Pivot." Both of these initiatives are based more or less on the neocon notion of pre-emption. In Ukraine this notion may create more problems that it will solve. I suspect the same will come as a result of the U.S. confronting China. One likely consequence of these initiatives is that it will cause Russia and China to form a tighter alliance to contain to confront the U.S. So the question is, will the U.S. pivot to Asia and its aggressive behavior with regards to Russia in Ukraine result in a tighter alliance between Russia and China to confront U.S. power?

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    Re: Will the U.S. Asia Pivot and activity in Ukraine push Russia and China together?

    Yes, of course. I've only been saying that for a long time. And not only will it, it is already at present. And actually began with the alliance the two formed in 2001.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Will the U.S. Asia Pivot and activity in Ukraine push Russia and China together?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Yes, of course. I've only been saying that for a long time. And not only will it, it is already at present. And actually began with the alliance the two formed in 2001.
    Yes and they are moving closer together right now. A consequence of the current strong neocon influence on U.S. foreign policy.

    Russia and China are planning to hold large-scale joint naval drills in the Mediterranean and Pacific next year, as deepening economic and political cooperation appear to be driving the two giants to at least discuss the idea of forming a military bloc.

    Both countries are rapidly jacking up their military spending and modernizing their forces. China is set to spend an unprecedented $132 billion of defense this year. Meanwhile, Russia is in the midst of a sweeping five-year $700-billion rearmament program, and has lately begun restoring Soviet-era bomber patrols across much of the West's airspace. Russian officials say the upcoming naval drills are designed to demonstrate that Russian and Chinese fleets can operate together in bodies of water half a world apart.

    It's still a far cry from the "NATO of the East" that some analysts have been predicting for years. But economic relations between them have taken a quantum leap, with two massive energy deals totaling almost $1 trillion signed in the past few months alone. As Russia digs in for what's beginning to look like a long-term standoff with the West, and China worries about protecting its back amid growing territorial disputes with US allies on its southern and eastern flanks, Russian officials are for the first time suggesting a permanent security alliance as a desirable goal.

    Military cooperation between Russia and China has "visibly expanded and gained a systemic character" recently, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu told journalists during a visit to Beijing this week. Both sides are increasingly concerned "over US attempts to strengthen its military and political clout in the Asia-Pacific region," he said. Hence, "we believe that the main goal of pooling our efforts is to shape a collective regional security system."

    Should it ever be created, such a bloc would dominate the Eurasian landmass, with naval bases from the Baltic, to the Arctic, to the Pacific, to the South China Sea. A union between Russia's cutting-edge weaponry and China's vast population and industrial base might spawn an armed juggernaut that could eventually rival NATO.

    Many analysts argue that the underlying tensions and history of acrimony between the two giants precludes a stable military alliance between them. But a few are suggesting that current pressures – Western sanctions and efforts to politically isolate Russia on one hand, and China's growing territorial ambitions on the other – are pushing Moscow and Beijing into each other's arms and making a joint military pact look increasingly seductive to both.

    "At the moment things are drifting in that direction. Russia has gotten into a position that makes it much more interested than it ever was before in seeking the security of a bloc," says Alexander Salitsky, an expert with the official Institute of World Economy and International Relations in Moscow. "Whether we like it or not, a new bipolarity is emerging in the world. There is already a measure of political and diplomatic coordination between Russia and China, and this seems to be growing."
    .....
    But joint naval drills on the world's far-flung oceans suggests a broader agenda emerging in Moscow and Beijing. Analysts say their goals are different but, at least for now, complementary.

    "Russia's intent is mainly political, it wants to play the 'China card' against the West," says Sergei Lukonin, a leading Russian China expert. "One major reason China is going along is that it hopes to obtain Russian military technology. It's using the situation to get what it wants, and seems to be succeeding."

    Until this year Russia has resisted selling its most modern weapons to China, largely out of fears that the Chinese will reverse-engineer them and sell the knock-offs more cheaply on global arms markets. But Moscow now seems willing to supply China with its newest fighter plane, the multi-role Su-35, as well as its most modern air defense system, the S-400.

    "To create a military-political alliance is a Russian aim, not a Chinese one," says Mr. Lukonin. "Whether it eventually comes to pass or not depends on how long this sanctions war between Russia and the West goes on. If things normalize soon, it will be forgotten. If tensions with the West go on a long time, it could happen."
    But he adds that "Russia will have drop any illusions it has and get used to the idea that China would be very much the dominant partner in the relationship."

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    Re: Will the U.S. Asia Pivot and activity in Ukraine push Russia and China together?

    Just found this that illustrates the point well.

    Here's How The Ukraine Crisis Is Deepening Military Ties Between China And Russia

    US-led economic sanctions against technology exports to Russia might have the unintended consequence of pushing Russian and Chinese technological industries into close cooperation, Russia-based security expert Vasily Kashin writes for The Moscow Times.

    Kashin, an analyst at the Centre for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies in Moscow, notes that any partnership between China and Russia would be mutually beneficial for both countries given long-standing US limits on arms sales to China, and more recent American measures stemming trade with Russia.

    Per The Moscow Times:

    China's production of military technology very favorably complements Russia's. While Russia exports upward of $2 billion in military equipment to China annually, Beijing is strong in a number of specific areas where Moscow is particularly weak. For example, despite making some progress, Russia has yet to achieve serial production of its own strike drones and remains heavily reliant on European and Israeli partners for that equipment.

    Kashin notes that China has developed full-scale mass production of two reconnaissance drones — which means China is starting to master defense technologies that are a relative Russian weakness. China has military and technical cooperation experience with other geopolitically difficult countries as well: In the past, China has developed military relationships with Pakistan and Iran.

    Kashin writes that China and Russia are already in the early stages of developing civilian industrial cooperation with a clear potential defense aspect to it. The countries are close to reaching a deal on the procurement of electronic components of satellites, he notes.

    According to Missile Threat, a website operated by the George C. Marshall and Claremont Institutes, it would make sense for Russia to reach out to China for help with an early warning missile system. China has the technological capability to build a satellite system necessary for Russia's early-warning systems, while Russia could provide China with the technology necessary to protect itself against medium-range ballistic missiles.

    Since the start of the Ukraine crisis, Russia and China have also moved closer together in the energy sector. In May, the two countries signed a gas pipeline megadeal that would provide China with natural gas for 30 years.

    This string of successes for Chinese foreign policy with Russia underscores how Russia has shifted eastwards after confrontation with the West over Ukraine.

    Ultimately, the crisis in Ukraine might benefit China more than any other country.

    "[China is] the big winner from the Ukraine crisis — everybody wants to work with them," Eurasia Group president Ian Bremmer told Business Insider in an email. "I’d say not only are they ignoring U./EU sanctions, they’re actually taking advantage of them."

    However, the ongoing crisis in Syria is leading to a thawing of relations between Russia and the US.

    A recent meeting between Secretary of State John Kerry and his Russian counterpart has led to speculation that Russia and the US may be nearing yet another "reset" of relations. This could hypothetically lead to a reduction in sanctions and a return of Russia doing business with Europe instead of China.

    But if Russia and the US attempt to mend their relationship, China and Russia will likely remain close as the two countries continue see their interests converge.
    Russia And China Are Building Ties Against The West - Business Insider

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    Re: Will the U.S. Asia Pivot and activity in Ukraine push Russia and China together?

    Exactly. As stated by both Russia and China (France and Germany as well) a uni-polar world is a threat to global security, and they aim to do something about that. The testosterone filled mouth breathing warmongers are to engaged in seeking the next war for America to beat its chest over. But I can tell you, that taking on Russia and China, together, militarily, won't look anything like the host of wars America has been in over the last 70 years. Such a pity, that neocon agendas (Libya, Syria, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc., are advanced even during democratic administrations.

    I'm still amazed at how most posters at DP treat as insignificant, Russia and China's criticism of the US/NATO in Libya, and how the two joined together in opposing all three Obama administration attempts to secure a resolution for the use of force against Syria at the UN. China has also been critical of the Wests role in Ukraine.

    I believe its too late though. Russia and China are going to continue to push back on US global hegemony.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Will the U.S. Asia Pivot and activity in Ukraine push Russia and China together?

    Again what is quite noteworthy in this whole Russia China thing is this

    Until this year Russia has resisted selling its most modern weapons to China, largely out of fears that the Chinese will reverse-engineer them and sell the knock-offs more cheaply on global arms markets. But Moscow now seems willing to supply China with its newest fighter plane, the multi-role Su-35, as well as its most modern air defense system, the S-400.
    That indeed is quite remarkable. Here we can note that Russia feels itself boxed in enough that they are willing to sacrifice this strategic advantage with China for the sake a larger strategic goal. Russia does not have the export capability of China. However, what Russia does have is oil and military technology. In particular, unless things have recently changed, it is my understanding that there something about the manufacture of jet engines that China has not quite mastered. Therefore they have to buy the jet engines for their most sophisticated fighters from Russia. That is if my memory serves me correctly. That the Russians are now prepared to sell one of their most sophisticated fighters to Russia indicates that a new level of cooperation is developing. Basically Russia's strategy will be to stay relevant and secure what is left of their influence in Ukraine until oil prices rebound. To help them accomplish this goal they will sell China military technology that it will need to confront the coming buildup in U.S. military power in its area of influence.

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    Re: Will the U.S. Asia Pivot and activity in Ukraine push Russia and China together?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    The U.S. has provoked Russian ire by its activity in Ukraine which have resulted in the current civil war. Now the U.S. is positioning itself to confront the rise of China with its "Asia Pivot." Both of these initiatives are based more or less on the neocon notion of pre-emption. In Ukraine this notion may create more problems that it will solve. I suspect the same will come as a result of the U.S. confronting China. One likely consequence of these initiatives is that it will cause Russia and China to form a tighter alliance to contain to confront the U.S. So the question is, will the U.S. pivot to Asia and its aggressive behavior with regards to Russia in Ukraine result in a tighter alliance between Russia and China to confront U.S. power?
    US caused the revolution of the people against corruption in Ukraine-Nope.
    As to Russia aligning with China, where else can they go.
    Problem is China is more of a threat to Russian territory than NATO would ever be.

    Lastly - China is a growing threat to the neighboring countries in the region.
    Quote Originally Posted by RickJames3000 View Post
    You need to revisit the chain of association... you only insisted you were a Trump-supporter after you figured out that made you a pederast as well. If I were you. I'd be more discreet about it... but I guess it's your dime.

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    Re: Will the U.S. Asia Pivot and activity in Ukraine push Russia and China together?

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    US caused the revolution of the people against corruption in Ukraine-Nope.
    Bogus. The US, particularly Victoria Nuland, led the charge after Yanukovich balked at the EU agreement. But you can put forward that bogus nonsense if you want. Someone will probably believe you.

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    As to Russia aligning with China, where else can they go.
    That is the point.

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    Problem is China is more of a threat to Russian territory than NATO would ever be.

    Lastly - China is a growing threat to the neighboring countries in the region.
    Although China does indeed pose a problem for Russia, the US is currently a much bigger problem to both. The evidence for that are the things that I have posted earlier in this thread.

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