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Should transwomen be legally treated as women?[W:165,1392]

Should transwomen be legally trreated as women?

  • Total voters
    160
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

MrVicchio said:
The arrogance, ignorance and shame of that statement. You were on the right track up to that point. In a single paragraph you argued against forcing people to accept a version of gender they disagree by... forcing people to accept a version of gender they disagree with.

Amazing.
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You do realize he just commented on an area he is an expert in, right?
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Henrin said:
You do realize he just commented on an area he is an expert in, right?
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And... what area is that? Hypocrisy?
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Henrin said:
There was no proof.
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So the link that I provided that supported my argument that a simple XY (male) and a simple XX (female) gene set isn't the end all be all of what determines a persons sex is "no proof"? Really?

Henrin said:
Any cutting or removal of genital organs means any cutting or removal genital organs. There is no way you can take that and somehow get that it only applies to involuntary action or that it only applies to voluntary action.
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And using JUST your STRICT definition even piercing to put a hoop on a clit or penis is considered genital mutilation and entirely ignoring that such can be and often is in the US considered not as genital mutilation but as genital modification.

The world is NOT black and white Henrin. It never was and never will be. The ONLY thing that can be black and white is a persons thoughts. People often ignore all the little grey areas that exist when it goes against something that they dislike or are against. Fortunately anyone that isn't colorblind and uses their eyes see all sorts of colors in the world.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Henrin said:
You do realize he just commented on an area he is an expert in, right?
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Digs is an expert in genetics! Cool! Oh wait...I don't recall anywhere him claiming to be an expert in genetics.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Kal'Stang said:
So the link that I provided that supported my argument that a simple XY (male) and a simple XX (female) gene set isn't the end all be all of what determines a persons sex is "no proof"? Really?
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You never applied the argument to transgenders.

And using JUST your STRICT definition even piercing to put a hoop on a clit or penis is considered genital mutilation and entirely ignoring that such can be and often is in the US considered not as genital mutilation but as genital modification.
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Any cut or removal of genital organs. If it involves cutting or removing genital organs it is genital mutilation, and if it doesn't, it's not. This isn't hard.

The world is NOT black and white Henrin. It never was and never will be. The ONLY thing that can be black and white is a persons thoughts. People often ignore all the little grey areas that exist when it goes against something that they dislike or are against. Fortunately anyone that isn't colorblind and uses their eyes see all sorts of colors in the world.
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Sigh..words mean things. I'm sorry that you can't accept that, but is what it is.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

MrVicchio said:
The arrogance, ignorance and shame of that statement. You were on the right track up to that point. In a single paragraph you argued against forcing people to accept a version of gender they disagree by... forcing people to accept a version of gender they disagree with.

Amazing.
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Biologically is the key word. Biologically they are their birth sex. When it comes to legal documents their should be something in place indicating their sex is male but gender identity is female. If everything just says "female" for a MTF trans person what's stopping them from trying to get free birth control, avoid selective service, try to cheat insurance companies or pay higher rates for health insurance (due to pregnancy and women's health risks they obviously won't have to worry about)? Their biological sex is male, their bodies are male and it maintains a female appearance through surgery, hormones and aesthetics. They may present and their gender identity may be famle but we shouldn't throw out biological fact and remove any distinction of their biological sex in the name of advancing some irrational hyper pro-LGBT agenda.
 
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Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Kal'Stang said:
Does using taxpayer money somehow interfere with other peoples Rights? Nope.



I wonder just how many things that the voters would have voted against through out our history..and yet still was done by the government AND has turned out to have been beneficial to society. At one point in history many thought it indefensible to allow a black man and a white woman to marry. At one point in time it was indefensible to allow a black woman to drink from a white mans fountain.
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Please keep continuing with such an opinion. For if it gets any further than your opinion, I guarantee you there will be people grabbing their torches and pitchforks and heading to the streets. We the People have the right to overthrow an out of control government. And a whole hell of a lot of citizens currently think we should have done it yesterday.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

If I graft a horn to my forehead and put horseshoes on my hands and feet, do I get to legally call myself a unicorn?
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

digsbe said:
Biologically is the key word. Biologically they are their birth sex. When it comes to legal documents their should be something in place indicating their sex is male but gender identity is female. If everything just says "female" for a MTF trans person what's stopping them from trying to get free birth control, avoid selective service, try to cheat insurance companies or pay higher rates for health insurance (due to pregnancy and women's health risks they obviously won't have to worry about)? Their biological sex is male, their bodies are male and it maintains a female appearance through surgery, hormones and aesthetics. They may present and their gender identity may be famle but we shouldn't throw out biological fact and remove any distinction of their biological sex in the name of advancing some irrational hyper pro-LGBT agenda.
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"Hey lady, you're a woman... but not really sorry you're a man still. Enjoy! Oh and don't you dare try to force anyone to think otherwise..."
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

MrVicchio said:
"Hey lady, you're a woman... but not really sorry you're a man still. Enjoy! Oh and don't you dare try to force anyone to think otherwise..."
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Great rebuttal. :roll:
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

TurtleDude said:
I don't think you really are all that into pro sports or understand them
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No not really, not when there are better and more fun things in my life. But what I keep hearing here is that the best woman athlete can't measure up to the average high school male. I'm just not buying it.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

maquiscat said:
No not really, not when there are better and more fun things in my life. But what I keep hearing here is that the best woman athlete can't measure up to the average high school male. I'm just not buying it.
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we didn't say average HS male athlete but we do note the very best women athletes will not win state championships in the bigger states

women's world record in the Mile 4.12.56 (Svetlana Masterkova, Russia)

Ohio state record, boy's 1600 (the older records in yards were actually better)

Bob Kennedy 4.05 (1600)
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

vesper said:
Please keep continuing with such an opinion. For if it gets any further than your opinion, I guarantee you there will be people grabbing their torches and pitchforks and heading to the streets. We the People have the right to overthrow an out of control government. And a whole hell of a lot of citizens currently think we should have done it yesterday.
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People thought the same way in the 10s, 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s, and yet there is still no revolution. Quit chest thumping and either do it or don't.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

505 said:
And since nobody in this thread has access to the needed people and equipment to conduct such testing, perhaps it's best to just drop it, eh?
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That is not true at all, here are several people on this forum with the access you require and if you don't want to take their word for it, then its on you.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Nicci said:
That is not true at all, here are several people on this forum with the access you require and if you don't want to take their word for it, then its on you.
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I'd personally love to know who. I have a suspicion that chimeraism might be a lot more common among the "alternate" sexualities as well as the intersexed/transgenders. But I don't have the expertise in the right fields to set up studies, and I'm not aware of any such studies being done.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Nicci said:
That is not true at all, here are several people on this forum with the access you require and if you don't want to take their word for it, then its on you.
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What? Ok fine... who are the SEVERAL people on this forum that have the needed equipment to do genetic testing? :roll:
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Nicci said:
You are a couple of years out of date, GID hasn't been a diagnosis for nearly two years now, not only is transsexuality not a mental disorder but it requires therapy and chemical therapy (via Endocrinologist) to treat effectively.
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"Gender identity disorder is classified as a medical disorder by the ICD-10 CM and DSM-5 (called gender dysphoria)."

I'll take their word over your's, thanks.

Especially in light of the discrimination transsexuals experience on a daily basis. This forum is no exception.
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Ahh yes. Because THAT is totally what should be the determining factor for a medical definition. The following sums it up perfectly:

"Many transgender people and researchers support declassification of GID because they say the diagnosis pathologizes gender variance, reinforces the binary model of gender, and can result in stigmatization of transgender individuals."

Trans(lol)lation: The trans people don't like it that they are officially classified as mentally ill, and get all "triggered" by people calling it what it actually is, so they want to change an established definition that they don't like into something they do (the SJW's favorite pass time these days).


Kal'Stang said:
So was homosexuality at one point. The more that is known however shows that it isn't necessarily due to a mental illness. Just as was done in homosexuals.
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Well there is quite a difference between who somebody likes and who somebody thinks they are. In the latter, they believe something that is provably/demonstrably false. That is open and shut mental illness.

Gender identity disorder
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See the above response to nicci.

IE: Not an elective surgery but a medical one.
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Being a medical surgery does not mean it isn't elective. They CHOOSE to mutilate their genitals. It isn't like getting a bypass surgery where the patient will die without it. It's more like the hollywood housewife that wants botox and some new tits. "They'll make her feeeeeeeeel better". Same thing. Elective/cosmetic.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Carjosse said:
Actually gender reassignment surgery is considered a treatment for Gender Identity Disorder, so I would make the argument if it is ultimately necessary for treatment and it should be covered.
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Yeah let's just cover everything! Lipo for fat people. Leg extensions for short people. Nose jobs for ugly people. Face lifts for old people. Let's all go get some surgery to make us all feel better. :)
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

maquiscat said:
I'd personally love to know who. I have a suspicion that chimeraism might be a lot more common among the "alternate" sexualities as well as the intersexed/transgenders. But I don't have the expertise in the right fields to set up studies, and I'm not aware of any such studies being done.
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I should clarify, access to the individuals to do the study. I missed the "equipment" part of the post.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

505 said:
"Gender identity disorder is classified as a medical disorder by the ICD-10 CM and DSM-5 (called gender dysphoria)."
I'll take their word over your's, thanks.
Ahh yes. Because THAT is totally what should be the determining factor for a medical definition. The following sums it up perfectly:

"Many transgender people and researchers support declassification of GID because they say the diagnosis pathologizes gender variance, reinforces the binary model of gender, and can result in stigmatization of transgender individuals."

Trans(lol)lation: The trans people don't like it that they are officially classified as mentally ill, and get all "triggered" by people calling it what it actually is, so they want to change an established definition that they don't like into something they do (the SJW's favorite pass time these days).
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That's fine you can take the APA's word over mine, as I agree with the APA and it being declassified as a mental disorder. It isn't a mental disorder, anymore than green eyes are a mental disorder compared to blue/brown.

Basically you don't like it, its icky, and you don't want to change your sex. That is fine, no one is going to make you. I'm glad you don't have to deal with what a transsexual has to deal with on a daily basis. There is a reason the suicide rate is so high.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

505 said:
Yeah let's just cover everything! Lipo for fat people. Leg extensions for short people. Nose jobs for ugly people. Face lifts for old people. Let's all go get some surgery to make us all feel better. :)
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And well - what's wrong with surgery to make one feel better?
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

paddymcdougall said:
And well - what's wrong with surgery to make one feel better?
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Oh absolutely nothing at all... as long as the person getting the surgery is paying for it themselves. Elective cosmetic surgery should not be paid for by taxpayers was the point.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Nope. Just another mentally ill person that needs mental health resources.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

505 said:
Oh absolutely nothing at all... as long as the person getting the surgery is paying for it themselves. Elective cosmetic surgery should not be paid for by taxpayers was the point.
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We pay for a lot of surgeries here in the US via tax payer dollars. There is nothing wrong with helping your fellow human. I wish you could see it that way but apparently the bias is far too strong.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Nicci said:
We pay for a lot of surgeries here in the US via tax payer dollars. There is nothing wrong with helping your fellow human. I wish you could see it that way but apparently the bias is far too strong.
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Helping someone on your own free will is noble and something to admire, but forcing your fellow human being to help others is contemptible behavior that should be scorned and condemned.
 
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