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Should transwomen be legally treated as women?[W:165,1392]

Should transwomen be legally trreated as women?

  • Total voters
    160
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

vesper said:
Well it does effect others if they get their sex changes on the taxpayers dime as you suggested earlier that you would have no problem with government paying for them.
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Does using taxpayer money somehow interfere with other peoples Rights? Nope.

vesper said:
I'm sure if you took a poll on likely voters in this country you would find that idea isn't going to fly. Most can't even get their head around someone physically changing their born sex let alone being handed the bill to pay for it.
I think what has been happening the last few years is seeing the use of Moral Relativism to attempt to normalize what most see as the indefensible. And I do believe there is a backlash in this country brewing over it.
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I wonder just how many things that the voters would have voted against through out our history..and yet still was done by the government AND has turned out to have been beneficial to society. At one point in history many thought it indefensible to allow a black man and a white woman to marry. At one point in time it was indefensible to allow a black woman to drink from a white mans fountain.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Kal'Stang said:
At one point in history many thought it indefensible to allow a black man and a white woman to marry. At one point in time it was indefensible to allow a black woman to drink from a white mans fountain.
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Comparing major key events in the civil rights movement to taxpayer funded cosmetic surgery for mentally ill people is quite a stretch. IMO at least.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Bob Blaylock said:
I think there's something grande,r more sinister, and more insidious, going on here, than mere “moral relativism”. More of a broader “universal relativism”, of which “moral relativism” is just one subset.

There are clear distinctions that are required for society and individuals to function. Male and Female. Good and Evil. Reason and Madness. Lawfulness and lawlessness. Light and Darkness.

The movement, it seems, seeks to erase these distinctions, to treat them as meaningless.
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Sounds CT'ish to me.

So. What is Good and Evil? What is Reason and Madness? What is Lawfulness and lawlessness? What is Light and Darkness? The world is not near as black and white as you seem to want it to be. Never was and never has been.

And no one is suggesting that we get rid of males/females and change the human race into some kind of asexual clones or whatever.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

505 said:
Comparing major key events in the civil rights movement to taxpayer funded cosmetic surgery for mentally ill people is quite a stretch. IMO at least.
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Mentally ill? Can you prove that transgenders are mentally ill? Or are they just following what is in their DNA? Are things that others do not understand and/or disapprove of always to be considered mentally ill?

And tax money is always being used to help those that are mentally ill. If you consider Transgenders to be mentally ill then you should have no problem with more tax money going towards helping them feel more comfortable and more able to function in society.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

maquiscat said:
I think I must not have made clear what I was saying. Yes there would be no more pro women's anything, but neither would there be any more pro men's anything. Understanding that I am using words for convince and the specific terms could change; there would be Tier I pro basketball and Tier II pro basketball. While Tier I would be mostly men, any woman who could compete and keep up with such men would be in it. And while Tier II would be mostly women, those men who are up on that level, but not up to Tier I level, would be in Tier II.

Now would we be limited to just the two Tiers/levels/organizations/whatever? Who knows? Ultimately it comes down to set your standards for entry, if a person meets those standards they play, if not they don't. It can't be any more simple than that. Toss the whole gender thing aside and then it doesn't matter if they are trans or not. You are pitting skill level against skill level.
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I don't think you really are all that into pro sports or understand them
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Kal'Stang said:
Mentally ill? Can you prove that transgenders are mentally ill?
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It is called Gender Identity Disorder, and it is literally classified as a mental illness.

If you consider Transgenders to be mentally ill then you should have no problem with more tax money going towards helping them feel more comfortable and more able to function in society.
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I do have a problem with it. An elective cosmetic surgery to "help somebody be more comfortable" by mutilating their genitals is not what I consider good use of tax dollars. Being comfortable is not a right.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

maquiscat said:
Ah there it is. The egocentricity that says that those not in agreements with you must be barbaric. So are you going to be true to this calling and assert that all body mutilation is barbaric, from ear piercings, to naval piercings, to gagging, to tattoos, and on down the list? Or is it only those body mutilations that you don't agree with?
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Cutting a healthy body part into pieces and turning it into a game of complete the puzzle is barbaric and extremely harmful to the functionality of the body part in question.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

maquiscat said:
Actually, in some people's opinion, particularly fundamentalist Christians but not limited there to, any non medical mutilation of the body is sinful and/or mentally disturbed. On the other side of the coin, there are those who enjoy extensive body modification. If you are holding the natural function of a penis to be procreation, then getting my tubes cut is no different from having the whole works removed and changed to an "innie".
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I don't happen to agree with doctors removing the functionality of the patient at all, so that includes getting your tubes cut. They're doctors and part of their job is to not harm their patient and cutting your tubes is obviously harmful to your body.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Kal'Stang said:
Mentally ill? Can you prove that transgenders are mentally ill?
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To believe something that is obviously, objectively false, such as man believing that he is or can become a woman, or vice-versa, is prima facie proof that one is delusional and insane. This is the plain, obvious truth.


Kal'Stang said:
And tax money is always being used to help those that are mentally ill. If you consider Transgenders to be mentally ill then you should have no problem with more tax money going towards helping them feel more comfortable and more able to function in society.
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As far as I know, transgenderism is the only form of insanity for which the accepted “treatment” consists of mutilating the patient to create an appearance of conforming to his delusion. To think that this is a valid way to treat a mental illness is as crazy as the illness that is being so treated.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

maquiscat said:
So according to you, if one is born with a vagina, but has the XY combination, then they are a female. I am not trying to be snarky or anything, but rewording your statement to see if I comprehended it correctly.
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Having a Y chromosome is actually not a guarantee that you will develop as a man. If your SRY gene malfunctions, then you're going to develop female.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Axe said:
Bigots and narrow minded people have mutilated minds.
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Get back to me when you have a real argument.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

505 said:
It is called Gender Identity Disorder, and it is literally classified as a mental illness.
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You are a couple of years out of date, GID hasn't been a diagnosis for nearly two years now, not only is transsexuality not a mental disorder but it requires therapy and chemical therapy (via Endocrinologist) to treat effectively.
Especially in light of the discrimination transsexuals experience on a daily basis. This forum is no exception.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

505 said:
It is called Gender Identity Disorder, and it is literally classified as a mental illness.
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So was homosexuality at one point. The more that is known however shows that it isn't necessarily due to a mental illness. Just as was done in homosexuals.

505 said:
I do have a problem with it. An elective cosmetic surgery to "help somebody be more comfortable" by mutilating their genitals is not what I consider good use of tax dollars. Being comfortable is not a right.
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Gender identity disorder

The current medical approach to treatment for persons diagnosed with gender identity disorder is to support the individual in physically modifying the body to better match the psychological gender identity.[10] This approach is based on the concept that their experience is based in a medical problem correctable by various forms of medical intervention.[10][11]
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IE: Not an elective surgery but a medical one.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Bob Blaylock said:
To believe something that is obviously, objectively false, such as man believing that he is or can become a woman, or vice-versa, is prima facie proof that one is delusional and insane. This is the plain, obvious truth.
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And yet men become women all the time and visa versa.

Bob Blaylock said:
As far as I know, transgenderism is the only form of insanity for which the accepted “treatment” consists of mutilating the patient to create an appearance of conforming to his delusion. To think that this is a valid way to treat a mental illness is as crazy as the illness that is being so treated.
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So everyone is to always be treated the same? Those with chicken pox should be treated with radiation like those with cancer? Those with heart disease should never be able to get a transplant since the medical procedure involves using something that is not naturally a part of their body when they were born? Different things should always be treated differently. Not even a lung cancer patient is treated the same as a patient with liver cancer.

As far as "mutilation" goes, that is really subjective as to whether something is considered mutilation or not. For instance I consider tattoo's to be mutilation of the body and yet millions of people, including my wife, have tattoos. IE: Just because YOU consider it mutilation doesn't mean that it is.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

505 said:
It is called Gender Identity Disorder, and it is literally classified as a mental illness.



I do have a problem with it. An elective cosmetic surgery to "help somebody be more comfortable" by mutilating their genitals is not what I consider good use of tax dollars. Being comfortable is not a right.
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Actually gender reassignment surgery is considered a treatment for Gender Identity Disorder, so I would make the argument if it is ultimately necessary for treatment and it should be covered.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Kal'Stang said:
And yet men become women all the time and visa versa.
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Except they don't.

So everyone is to always be treated the same? Those with chicken pox should be treated with radiation like those with cancer? Those with heart disease should never be able to get a transplant since the medical procedure involves using something that is not naturally a part of their body when they were born? Different things should always be treated differently. Not even a lung cancer patient is treated the same as a patient with liver cancer.

As far as "mutilation" goes, that is really subjective as to whether something is considered mutilation or not. For instance I consider tattoo's to be mutilation of the body and yet millions of people, including my wife, have tattoos. IE: Just because YOU consider it mutilation doesn't mean that it is.
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Genital mutilation has a definition and everything.

any type of cutting or removal of all or some of the genital organs, especially excision of the clitoris.

Are you really going to argue that it's not genital mutilation? You can justify it when the body part in question is in need of medical treatment, but when it is healthy there is really no way to argue any cutting or removal of genital organs is justified. Treating something involves facing the source of the issue, not appeasing the issue with what it wants to see by acting on healthy body parts and removing bodily function from the patient.
 
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Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Henrin said:
Except they don't.
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Except that they do. You may not accept it as such. But they do. What they believe in themselves is more important than what you believe about them.

Henrin said:
Genital mutilation has a definition and everything.

any type of cutting or removal of all or some of the genital organs, especially excision of the clitoris.

Are you really going to argue that it's not genital mutilation? You can justify it when the body part in question is in need of medical treatment, but when it is healthy there is really no way to argue any cutting or removal of genital organs is justified. Treating something involves facing the source of the issue, not appeasing the issue with what it wants to see by acting on healthy body parts and removing bodily function from the patient.
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Their is a difference between genital mutilation and genital modification. They both have their own definitions. You are misapplying your definition.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Kal'Stang said:
Except that they do. You may not accept it as such. But they do. What they believe in themselves is more important than what you believe about them.
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Facts don't care what they think.

Their is a difference between genital mutilation and genital modification. They both have their own definitions. You are misapplying your definition.
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Seriously, that is your argument? Who told you that genital modification doesn't involve genital mutilation?
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Henrin said:
Facts don't care what they think.
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Yes and facts show that there is a difference between someone that is transgender vs those that are not. Gene's don't lie.

Henrin said:
Seriously, that is your argument? Who told you that genital modification doesn't involve genital mutilation?
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Who told you that it does? Do you know the difference between the two?
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Kal'Stang said:
Yes and facts show that there is a difference between someone that is transgender vs those that are not. Gene's don't lie.
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You didn't defend this argument the last time you made it.

Who told you that it does? Do you know the difference between the two?
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Do you have any idea what goes into this surgery? Anyone that says it doesn't involve genital mutilation is frankly ignorant or lying.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Henrin said:
You didn't defend this argument the last time you made it.
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I did. You just didn't listen. :shrug:

Henrin said:
Do you have any idea what goes into this surgery? Anyone that says it doesn't involve genital mutilation is frankly ignorant or lying.
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Apparently you don't know the difference. One is involuntary. The other is voluntary.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Kal'Stang said:
I did. You just didn't listen. :shrug:
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No, you didn't.

Apparently you don't know the difference. One is involuntary. The other is voluntary.
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Where in the definition does it say anything about involuntary or voluntary action? It doesn't.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Henrin said:
No, you didn't.
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Yes I did. Once I provided my proof all that you did was attempt to claim that I was saying that you said something that you did not. Not once addressing what I actually provided. Since you decided to do that I decided to just stop responding since you obviously didn't want to address what I had provided but instead wanted to make it about me and you.

Henrin said:
Where in the definition does it say anything about involuntary or voluntary action? It doesn't.
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And definitions really highlight all the grey areas in a subject....right? Not.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

digsbe said:
Bottom line though, they have the right to be trans and people shouldn't stop them. But they also should never have the right to demand that others recognize their status, force their identity and definition of gender upon others or be recognized biologically as anything other than their birth sex.
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The arrogance, ignorance and shame of that statement. You were on the right track up to that point. In a single paragraph you argued against forcing people to accept a version of gender they disagree by... forcing people to accept a version of gender they disagree with.

Amazing.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Kal'Stang said:
Yes I did. Once I provided my proof all that you did was attempt to claim that I was saying that you said something that you did not. Not once addressing what I actually provided. Since you decided to do that I decided to just stop responding since you obviously didn't want to address what I had provided but instead wanted to make it about me and you.
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There was no proof.

And definitions really highlight all the grey areas in a subject....right? Not.
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Any cutting or removal of genital organs means any cutting or removal genital organs. There is no way you can take that and somehow get that it only applies to involuntary action or that it only applies to voluntary action.
 
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