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Should transwomen be legally treated as women?[W:165,1392]

Should transwomen be legally trreated as women?

  • Total voters
    160
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

505 said:
No, you haven't. Your "possibility" has not been proven to have anything to do with the argument. Burden of proof is on you to make the connection, not for somebody else to prove that there isn't one.
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Sorry, it still comes down to the, claiming that a transwoman is really a man simply because they have the XY combination, and yet cannot prove their positive claim of transwomen having nothing other than the XY combination.

So here is some backup on one of my possibilities. Mind you I still am not claiming that this is a cause yet alone the only clause of transsexualism.
Chimera (genetics) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Note the third example. If they can have partial sex organs of the opposite gender, what else develop in them that could cause them to be other than the obvious external genitals? Of course their immediate argument is that genetic anomalies don't count. I'm saying that unless you do the test to confirm or eliminate the existence of said anomaly within the transsexual, you can't claim that they don't have a genetic anomaly and are a straight (no puns intended) man or woman.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Bob Blaylock said:
How many babies have been conceived and born through ”artificial vaginas”?
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I can get a woman to get pregnant and bypass the vagina altogether. The vagina has nothing to do with pregnancy save as the most confident access to the uterus. But a uterus isn't the definition of a woman either, as there are women born with their reproduction organs while still having a vagina.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Axe said:
Not all vaginas conceive and give birth to children.
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That is their primary biological function. It is not very honest to describe an artificial imitation thereof as functioning well, if is is not able to fulfill this function at all.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

maquiscat said:
You are factually wrong on this. I understand that in your view such a person is their original gender. An artificial heart is still a heart. An artificial hand is still an hand. An artificial vagina is still a vagina...and functions much better than most artificial hands.
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No, it's a penis cut up and moved around to look like a vagina. No doctor that I have seen calls it equivalent to the real thing. Even if it was however you're right that it wouldn't be in my eyes.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Axe said:
Bigots and narrow minded people have mutilated minds.
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That makes no sense. It is factual they cut up the gential area of the male to make something that looks like a vagina. Mutilating someone's healthy genitals to look like a vagina is an extreme case of genital mutilation and absolutely barbaric behaviour.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Henrin said:
That makes no sense. It is factual they cut up the gential area of the male to make something that looks like a vagina. Mutilating someone's healthy genitals to look like a vagina is an extreme case of genital mutilation and absolutely barbaric behaviour.
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Indeed.

It is not much different than a practice which occurs in some backward African societies, which, when discussed in any civilized setting, is harshly condemned for the brutal savagery that it is.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Bob Blaylock said:
That is their primary biological function. It is not very honest to describe an artificial imitation thereof as functioning well, if is is not able to fulfill this function at all.
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You're confusing the vagina and the uterus. A woman can get pregnant with a uterus and not a vagina, but the inverse cannot hold true.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Henrin said:
No, it's a penis cut up and moved around to look like a vagina. No doctor that I have seen calls it equivalent to the real thing. Even if it was however you're right that it wouldn't be in my eyes.
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An artificial vagina is as equivalent to a real vagina as an artificial heart or hand or whatever is to the real thing. John Bobbitt has an artificial penis. There is no question that the artificial is not the same as the real thing. Are you saying that Mr. Bobbitt has no penis at all? Are you claiming that our solders with prosthetics have no arms/legs/hand/whatever at all? Is it your position that the person with the artificial heart has no heart at all? None of these artificial items work as well as the real things, not the heart, the vagina, the hand, or the penis. But they work and they serve the function of that which they are modeled after.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Dovkan said:
Henrin, you never cease to amaze me with your bigotry.
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it depends. in athletic contests NO

in legal accommodations yes
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

maquiscat said:
Sorry, it still comes down to the, claiming that a transwoman is really a man simply because they have the XY combination, and yet cannot prove their positive claim of transwomen having nothing other than the XY combination.
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And since nobody in this thread has access to the needed people and equipment to conduct such testing, perhaps it's best to just drop it, eh?
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Henrin said:
That makes no sense. It is factual they cut up the gential area of the male to make something that looks like a vagina. Mutilating someone's healthy genitals to look like a vagina is an extreme case of genital mutilation and absolutely barbaric behaviour.
Click to expand...

Bob Blaylock said:
Indeed.

It is not much different than a practice which occurs in some backward African societies, which, when discussed in any civilized setting, is harshly condemned for the brutal savagery that it is.
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Ah there it is. The egocentricity that says that those not in agreements with you must be barbaric. So are you going to be true to this calling and assert that all body mutilation is barbaric, from ear piercings, to naval piercings, to gagging, to tattoos, and on down the list? Or is it only those body mutilations that you don't agree with?
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

maquiscat said:
An artificial vagina is as equivalent to a real vagina as an artificial heart or hand or whatever is to the real thing.
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No, it isn't.

Does the real thing need to have foreign objects inserted into it daily to keep it from trying to heal itself and close back up?

LvtKS6f1WatQ4.gif
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

maquiscat said:
Ah there it is. The egocentricity that says that those not in agreements with you must be barbaric. So are you going to be true to this calling and assert that all body mutilation is barbaric, from ear piercings, to naval piercings, to gagging, to tattoos, and on down the list? Or is it only those body mutilations that you don't agree with?
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do you think such a person should be allowed to compete as a woman in the olympic games, or HS sports or NCAA sports?
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

505 said:
And since nobody in this thread has access to the needed people and equipment to conduct such testing, perhaps it's best to just drop it, eh?
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I'm not the one claiming that a transsexual has no genetic anomalies and thus it's a mental disorder without the evidence to back it up. So who are the ones that need to drop it?
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

maquiscat said:
I'm not the one claiming that a transsexual has no genetic anomalies and thus it's a mental disorder without the evidence to back it up. So who are the ones that need to drop it?
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That is just you building a strawman. It remains a fact that the vast majority of the population doesn't have these anomalies you keep harping on, and until you prove that trans people have said anomalies at a higher rate than normal people, you have nothing. Since you can not prove it, it is YOU that should drop it.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

TurtleDude said:
do you think such a person should be allowed to compete as a woman in the olympic games, or HS sports or NCAA sports?
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Quite honestly, I think that they need to do away with the gender division within sports altogether. There are males out there who could not compete on the same level as those in say the NBA. But they could compete on the same level as the WNBA. Just like you don't put a featherweight contender up against a heavyweight contender. Now would certain categories within a given sport be dominated by men or by women? Yes. Nature of the beast. But gender doesn't have to play a role when skill and ability should be the determinant factors.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

505 said:
That is just you building a strawman. It remains a fact that the vast majority of the population doesn't have these anomalies you keep harping on, and until you prove that trans people have said anomalies at a higher rate than normal people, you have nothing. Since you can not prove it, it is YOU that should drop it.
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The vast majority of the population aren't transsexual either, so please take your strawman elsewhere. A vast majority of the population aren't left handed either.

At one point we would have said that miscarriages were relatively rare events. Now medical science has the evidence that women miscarry frequently, with the majority of them occurring early on, before the woman realizes she's pregnant. Autism is now considered to be way more frequent than previously thought, and on a wide scale. And how did we come to these discoveries? Because someone out there didn't accept that just because we've believed something was true for centuries, it doesn't mean it was. So they started looking at things no one bothered to look at before.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

maquiscat said:
Quite honestly, I think that they need to do away with the gender division within sports altogether. There are males out there who could not compete on the same level as those in say the NBA. But they could compete on the same level as the WNBA. Just like you don't put a featherweight contender up against a heavyweight contender. Now would certain categories within a given sport be dominated by men or by women? Yes. Nature of the beast. But gender doesn't have to play a role when skill and ability should be the determinant factors.
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if you do that you won't have any

women's pro basketball

any women's pro tennis

any women's pro golf

a top HS male player will beat Serena Williams in tennis-and beat her badly

a decent HS men's basketball team will obliterate a women's pro team;

the speed is way too much

the HS I attended went 1-2 in the state tennis individual tournament. The kid who won is a top D-I recruit but he's nothing like the kids turning pro in HS like Sampras and Arias or Agassi did and he still hits serves at 130 MPH.

I knew the guy who played #1 for Notre Dame a couple years ago. He got to the semis of our city championship, He is no where near a pro tour player but he'd crush any pro lady
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

maquiscat said:
The vast majority of the population aren't transsexual either, so please take your strawman elsewhere. A vast majority of the population aren't left handed either.

At one point we would have said that miscarriages were relatively rare events. Now medical science has the evidence that women miscarry frequently, with the majority of them occurring early on, before the woman realizes she's pregnant. Autism is now considered to be way more frequent than previously thought, and on a wide scale. And how did we come to these discoveries? Because someone out there didn't accept that just because we've believed something was true for centuries, it doesn't mean it was. So they started looking at things no one bothered to look at before.
Click to expand...

BjeiL8WnqByKY.gif
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

maquiscat said:
Ah there it is. The egocentricity that says that those not in agreements with you must be barbaric. So are you going to be true to this calling and assert that all body mutilation is barbaric, from ear piercings, to naval piercings, to gagging, to tattoos, and on down the list? Or is it only those body mutilations that you don't agree with?
Click to expand...

Really?

You're going to suggest that a simple piercing or tattoo is the equivalent of a major mutilation of one's genital to the point of destroying their natural function in favor of a superficial imitation of the opposite sex?

Seriously?
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

TurtleDude said:
if you do that you won't have any

women's pro basketball

any women's pro tennis

any women's pro golf

a top HS male player will beat Serena Williams in tennis-and beat her badly

a decent HS men's basketball team will obliterate a women's pro team;

the speed is way too much

the HS I attended went 1-2 in the state tennis individual tournament. The kid who won is a top D-I recruit but he's nothing like the kids turning pro in HS like Sampras and Arias or Agassi did and he still hits serves at 130 MPH.

I knew the guy who played #1 for Notre Dame a couple years ago. He got to the semis of our city championship, He is no where near a pro tour player but he'd crush any pro lady
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I think I must not have made clear what I was saying. Yes there would be no more pro women's anything, but neither would there be any more pro men's anything. Understanding that I am using words for convince and the specific terms could change; there would be Tier I pro basketball and Tier II pro basketball. While Tier I would be mostly men, any woman who could compete and keep up with such men would be in it. And while Tier II would be mostly women, those men who are up on that level, but not up to Tier I level, would be in Tier II.

Now would we be limited to just the two Tiers/levels/organizations/whatever? Who knows? Ultimately it comes down to set your standards for entry, if a person meets those standards they play, if not they don't. It can't be any more simple than that. Toss the whole gender thing aside and then it doesn't matter if they are trans or not. You are pitting skill level against skill level.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Bob Blaylock said:
Really?

You're going to suggest that a simple piercing or tattoo is the equivalent of a major mutilation of one's genital to the point of destroying their natural function in favor of a superficial imitation of the opposite sex?

Seriously?
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Actually, in some people's opinion, particularly fundamentalist Christians but not limited there to, any non medical mutilation of the body is sinful and/or mentally disturbed. On the other side of the coin, there are those who enjoy extensive body modification. If you are holding the natural function of a penis to be procreation, then getting my tubes cut is no different from having the whole works removed and changed to an "innie".
 
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Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Kal'Stang said:
Immoral to you. Don't care. Everyone has a right to live their life how they choose to live it so long as it doesn't interfere with anyone else's Rights. And Transgenderism certainly does not do that.

As for the government paying for it...well...I say that they should pay for it, you say the opposite. Guess we cancel each other out and as such should let a neutral 3rd party decide huh? Only neutral 3rd party that can do that is the government. ;)
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Well it does effect others if they get their sex changes on the taxpayers dime as you suggested earlier that you would have no problem with government paying for them.

I'm sure if you took a poll on likely voters in this country you would find that idea isn't going to fly. Most can't even get their head around someone physically changing their born sex let alone being handed the bill to pay for it.
I think what has been happening the last few years is seeing the use of Moral Relativism to attempt to normalize what most see as the indefensible. And I do believe there is a backlash in this country brewing over it.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

vesper said:
Well it does effect others if they get their sex changes on the taxpayers dime as you suggested earlier that you would have no problem with government paying for them.

I'm sure if you took a poll on likely voters in this country you would find that idea isn't going to fly. Most can't even get their head around someone physically changing their born sex let alone being handed the bill to pay for it.
I think what has been happening the last few years is seeing the use of Moral Relativism to attempt to normalize what most see as the indefensible. And I do believe there is a backlash in this country brewing over it.
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I think there's something grande,r more sinister, and more insidious, going on here, than mere “moral relativism”. More of a broader “universal relativism”, of which “moral relativism” is just one subset.

There are clear distinctions that are required for society and individuals to function. Male and Female. Good and Evil. Reason and Madness. Lawfulness and lawlessness. Light and Darkness.

The movement, it seems, seeks to erase these distinctions, to treat them as meaningless.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

maquiscat said:
I think I must not have made clear what I was saying. Yes there would be no more pro women's anything, but neither would there be any more pro men's anything. Understanding that I am using words for convince and the specific terms could change; there would be Tier I pro basketball and Tier II pro basketball. While Tier I would be mostly men, any woman who could compete and keep up with such men would be in it. And while Tier II would be mostly women, those men who are up on that level, but not up to Tier I level, would be in Tier II.
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I don't think this would work like you think. Your "tier 2" would be filled with men. "Tier 3"? Filled with men. 4? Men. As somebody brought up earlier, a decent boys highschool team will usually destroy women's pro teams. I can hang with LPGA players and I don't even get out to golf much these days.

What you'll end up doing with this is effectively eliminating women's leagues and replacing them with minor league men's teams. And doing it all just so the mentally deranged 0.3% can fit in? No thanks. We're way better off just saying that they can't play competitively at all. Or they can all band together and go form their own "gender neutral" league or whatever they want to call it.

edit - Actually, I think we might be onto something here. It might be kind of morbidly entertaining to see all of the transfolk playing each other on the b-ball court... the ones that look like women will be dunking and crossing people over all sick... while the "manly" looking ones will be barely getting the ball up over the rim on free throws and just generally getting schooled. It will be like a weird bizarro reverso world. We could get it televised on Spike or something. Hmmm.
 
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