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Should transwomen be legally treated as women?[W:165,1392]

Should transwomen be legally trreated as women?

  • Total voters
    160
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

maquiscat said:
Ok now show me the studies that show that all the transgenders are not chimeric or have other genetic anomalies. You are arguing that these people are one thing or the other because of what is between their legs, yet you can't show whether or not their condition is part of a genetic or hormonal condition.
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Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

There's no evidence that the vast majority of “transgender” people have the extremely-rare genetic conditions that you cite. If you're going to claim that they do, then it's on you to support that claim. Lacking significant support, it is most rational to assume that they do not.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Bob Blaylock said:
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

There's no evidence that the vast majority of “transgender” people have the extremely-rare genetic conditions that you cite. If you're going to claim that they do, then it's on you to support that claim. Lacking significant support, it is most rational to assume that they do not.
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Like I said, he wants you to prove a negative.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Henrin said:
So basically you want bob to prove something to be false that has no evidence of being true. That isn't like religious people asking atheists to prove god doesn't exist how?
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You two have made a claim. A claim cannot be proven false in and of it self short of proving something else exclusive to the claim. You can only prove the claim true, or not prove it true. When the latter occurs, it does not prove the claim false.

The claim is that a "transwoman" is a man because the individual was born with a penis and has the XY combination. The inverse is also claimed regarding transmen. Yet you cannot positively support your claim and show that transwomen only have the XY combination with no other DNA within their bodies or other genetic anomalies that would cause the inner/outer conflict. Anomalies that you even note places such an individual outside the argument.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Henrin said:
Like I said, he wants you to prove a negative.
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That's only a small part of his error. Much bigger is, on hearing hoofbeats, to assume that a zebra is running nearby, than a horse.

It is only a very tiny portion of humanity—much less than one percent—who are biologically deviant from the clear distinction between male and female. There is no evidence that this deviation, known as “intersex”, is any more or less common among “transgenders” than along people who are not confused and deluded about their sexual identity.

Transgenderism and Intersex are two completely different defects, that have nothing to do with one another. One is physical/biological, and the other is purely a delusional mental illness.

Maquiscat is putting forth a theory that is extremely unlikely to be true, and rather than taking responsibility to defend his theory, he is trying to put the burden on me to disprove it. It's not my responsibility, nor anyone else's, to disprove a theory that is not supported by any evidence, and which, by all indications, is highly unlikely to be true. The burden is entirely on anyone who posits such a theory to attempt to prove that it is true, or at least to prove that it is plausible. Maquiscat has not done so, and cannot do so.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Bob Blaylock said:
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

There's no evidence that the vast majority of “transgender” people have the extremely-rare genetic conditions that you cite. If you're going to claim that they do, then it's on you to support that claim. Lacking significant support, it is most rational to assume that they do not.
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First off, how many things have we discovered are not as rare as we once thought they were simply because we now know more medically and genetically? So the question first is, are these things rare or unrecognized? Secondly, I make no claim as to the cause of transgenderism. I merely note that there could be other factors in play, factors that you call anomalies, that could cause this conflict. You are the ones making the claim that trans only have the one set of DNA with no anomalies.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

maquiscat said:
You two have made a claim. A claim cannot be proven false in and of it self short of proving something else exclusive to the claim. You can only prove the claim true, or not prove it true. When the latter occurs, it does not prove the claim false.

The claim is that a "transwoman" is a man because the individual was born with a penis and has the XY combination. The inverse is also claimed regarding transmen. Yet you cannot positively support your claim and show that transwomen only have the XY combination with no other DNA within their bodies or other genetic anomalies that would cause the inner/outer conflict. Anomalies that you even note places such an individual outside the argument.
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You have no proof for your argument you believe could possibly debunk his argument. Since there is no proof of your argument there is no reason to prove it is untrue since all evidence suggests that is the case. At this point all you have is a claim that is at best an empty challenge no one must humor.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

maquiscat said:
First off, how many things have we discovered are not as rare as we once thought they were simply because we now know more medically and genetically? So the question first is, are these things rare or unrecognized? Secondly, I make no claim as to the cause of transgenderism. I merely note that there could be other factors in play, factors that you call anomalies, that could cause this conflict. You are the ones making the claim that trans only have the one set of DNA with no anomalies.
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A claim that is solid enough that we can most reasonably assume that it is true, until there is sufficient evidence to support otherwise. That's the point.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Manc Skipper said:
A woman doesn't need to go into a toilet to be viewed a certain way be some kinds of men.

I work in a profession that's 90% female. At conferences the facilities in the buildngs are normally provided 50/50 male to female. It's the norm for females to use the stalls in the mens' rooms at comfort breaks, to avoid the inevitable jams in the ladies', and save the need for breaks to be doubled in length.
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Do you work where there is lots of alcohol? Do people show up to get laid?
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

You have no proof of your argument there is no reason to prove it is untrue since all evidence suggests that is the case. At this point all you have is a claim that is at best an empty challenge no one must humor.
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Except I am not attempting to make a claim to be proven. I have offered up possibilities as to your claim might not be true, but you both seem intent on not backing up your claim. You have said "X". I say, "can you prove 'X'? Can you prove that factors A, B and C are part of if not wholly the cause, by showing that only X is present?"

Bob Blaylock said:
A claim that is solid enough that we can most reasonably assume that it is true, until there is sufficient evidence to support otherwise. That's the point.
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Ah a Geocentric kind of guy. After all the evidence that the sun moves around the earth is right before your eyes everyday. You simply can't look at a trans and determine that their genetic make up is what you claim a male or female is, any more than you can look at someone with cancer and say that it comes from their genetics. Therefore you have no basis upon which to lay your claim that they fit your male/female genetic description.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Men and women should not be treated differently by the law.

If you're asking whether or not a man should have "Sex: M" listed on a government document like a driver's license, then yes, it should say "Sex: M."
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Manc Skipper said:
Do you have a rich fantasy life there in mom's basement?
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That was not a very good deflection. I simply pointed out that your work place isnt the same as a bar where people go to drink alcohol and possibly get laid. Most date rapes start at drinking establishments. I just dont think it is wise for any woman to put them self in a situation that could end up very bad. If you disagree whatever, I dont care. The troll accusation though is less than I expected from you. It was disappointing to read.
 
MildSteel said:
Well, what do you think?
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No. If I call myself a donkey, I won't get to be legally treated as a donkey. If I call myself the King of Spain, I won't be legally treated as the King of Spain.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

maquiscat said:
Therefore you have no basis upon which to lay your claim that they fit your male/female genetic description.
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Boys have a penis and girls have a vagina. It's really not much more complicated than that.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

phattonez said:
Boys have a penis and girls have a vagina. It's really not much more complicated than that.
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So when one is removed and replaced with the other?
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Cephus said:
So when one is removed and replaced with the other?
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That doesn't happen. :shrug:
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Cephus said:
So when one is removed and replaced with the other?
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Then you have a mutilated penis/vagina.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Manc Skipper said:
Do you have a rich fantasy life there in mom's basement?
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Wow where did that come from? Totally uncalled for.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

maquiscat said:
I have offered up possibilities as to your claim might not be true,
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No, you haven't. Your "possibility" has not been proven to have anything to do with the argument. Burden of proof is on you to make the connection, not for somebody else to prove that there isn't one.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

505 said:
Wow where did that come from? Totally uncalled for.
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Some people can't do any better, what do you expect?
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

phattonez said:
Boys have a penis and girls have a vagina. It's really not much more complicated than that.
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So according to you, if one is born with a vagina, but has the XY combination, then they are a female. I am not trying to be snarky or anything, but rewording your statement to see if I comprehended it correctly.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Henrin said:
That doesn't happen. :shrug:
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You are factually wrong on this. I understand that in your view such a person is their original gender. An artificial heart is still a heart. An artificial hand is still an hand. An artificial vagina is still a vagina...and functions much better than most artificial hands.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

phattonez said:
Then you have a mutilated penis/vagina.
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Bigots and narrow minded people have mutilated minds.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

maquiscat said:
An artificial vagina is still a vagina...and functions much better than most artificial hands.
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How many babies have been conceived and born through ”artificial vaginas”?
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Bob Blaylock said:
How many babies have been conceived and born through ”artificial vaginas”?
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Not all vaginas conceive and give birth to children.
 
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