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Should transwomen be legally treated as women?[W:165,1392]

Should transwomen be legally trreated as women?


  • Total voters
    160
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Post 404. I already quoted you. You are being deliberately obtuse.


saying I don't care what people do or how they live is "bigoted"?

Really?



That's a bit like a guarantee from Oprah that she won't touch the jam tarts.


So is that like a "black joke" or a "obesity" insult?


I'm sure in your 90% white country you live in you can pontificate on how un-prejudiced you are and congadjulate yourself on your "tolerance" all while being the most intolerant in this thread. *shrug*
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Ok, so why should facts be patronising?

Your assertions about transgenders are hardly "facts" - the world had moved on, but on planet Henrin it's still 1956.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

saying I don't care what people do or how they live is "bigoted"?

Really?

Now YOU show me the post where I actually said that. You are selectively quoting and twisting words. I said you were a bigot for other reasons, as you well know.




So is that like a "black joke" or a "obesity" insult?


I'm sure in your 90% white country you live in you can pontificate on how un-prejudiced you are and congadjulate yourself on your "tolerance" all while being the most intolerant in this thread. *shrug*

Get over yourself. That Oprah is black is irrelevant. YOU are the person reading race into this (what a surprise?)

Metropolitan France is probably more than 90% white. According to INSEE in 2010 we were 87.7% French by origin plus another 4.4% French by acquisition. They didn't see the need to break that down by colour, disappointingly for you. Amazing you quote the figure you do, since you and your friends are usually trying to paint a picture of a France over-run by dark and dusky muslims. I happen to be partnered with a black African muslim and no, that's neither tolerance nor being trendy, it's simply not having a hang up about peoples' race or origins.

Oprah is a yo-yo dieter/gastric band-ite who despite pontificating to the world on every subject under the sun, evidently can't control it when it comes to the cake. She has made herslf a public figure and is hence a target for jokes. I couldn't give a $hit what colour she is, but evidently you do.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Now YOU show me the post where I actually said that. You are selectively quoting and twisting words. I said you were a bigot for other reasons, as you well know.


That's exactly what I said in 404, you claimed it was me being "bigoted", I'm twisting nothing, you are making baseseless pc police accusations, again.


Get over yourself. That Oprah is black is irrelevant. YOU are the person reading race into this (what a surprise?)

I'm mocking your PC fascism.


Metropolitan France is probably more than 90% white. According to INSEE in 2010 we were 87.7% French by origin plus another 4.4% French by acquisition. They didn't see the need to break that down by colour, disappointingly for you. Amazing you quote the figure you do, since you and your friends are usually trying to paint a picture of a France over-run by dark and dusky muslims. I happen to be partnered with a black African muslim and no, that's neither tolerance nor being trendy, it's simply not having a hang up about peoples' race or origins.


I grew up on the lower east side of NYC, then in Newark NJ, in all my schools growing up, white was the minority, by far. I am on the board of 2 inner city youth clubs. race, has never been an issue to me, and I didn't have to marry someone to prove it. ;)


Oprah is a yo-yo dieter/gastric band-ite who despite pontificating to the world on every subject under the sun, evidently can't control it whern it comes to the cake. She has made herslf a public figure and is hence a target for jokes. I couldn't give a $hit what colour she is, but evidently you do.

Not really, as I said, I was mocking your holier than thouh PC fascism.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Your assertions about transgenders are hardly "facts" - the world had moved on, but on planet Henrin it's still 1956.

What did I get wrong?
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Each of the following posts shows that you consider it to be a simple black and white issue. A person that has XY chromosomes is male. A person that has XX chromosomes is female. Period. There is no other possibility except through genetic diseases. Nor was my post aimed at letting you know that genetic diseases do or don't exist. That would be a silly thing to do considering. ;) My posts are there to inform you that it is not such a black and white issue.

Now, as I've already admitted what is or isn't a defect is of course entirely subjective with the exception of those that cause harm, such as cancer. Whether it is or not is of course up to you. I'm not arguing that side of things. I'm just mainly here to show that it isn't near as simple as so many seem to think and have implied through their posts. However I would point out that by definition a "defect" is normally something that is considered undesirable and harmful to the whole of someone/something. Now transgenderism may be considered undesirable by people, but it is not harmful to that someone. Same essentially applies to genetic diseases btw. As such categorizing transgenders as "defects" or "genetic diseases" isn't actually all that accurate.

Sigh. I have admitted the existence of XY women and XX men many times over in these threads and in this thread here talked of XY women and even said what it was caused by.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Sigh. I have admitted the existence of XY women and XX men many times over in these threads and in this thread here talked of XY women and even said what it was caused by.

Yes you have. So why do you seem to be against the government treating a transgender woman as a woman? Because you think its a defect/genetic disease? Some other reason? Have I missed something that you posted or perhaps misread something that you wrote due to either my lack of reading comprehension of your type of writing or due to your lack of expressing yourself fully?

You started out asking me a question about specific names of genes that I was going by. When I replied to that question you thought it odd that I didn't know. So I expanded upon that and my reasoning basing my post upon two things, answering your direct question to me and addressing what I saw from your posts as the implication that it was a black and white issue. Perhaps I didn't need to address that last part but I felt the need to. Lack of understanding a perspective does that to me some times. ;)
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Does this mean at crowded sports events when there are not enough toilets for women, they can use the urinals of the mens restrooms?
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

If the individual has gone through the procedure and hormone treatment then sure. In other words If you have the mindset of a female the genitalia of a female as well as the hormones of a female then you are indeed a female.
Science doesn't have the ability to give someone born male the genitalia of a female. The best they can do is copy the cosmetic appearance of that genetalia. This is like putting the body of a sports car on the chassis of a compact car, it doesn't change the performance.


Does this mean at crowded sports events when there are not enough toilets for women, they can use the urinals of the mens restrooms?

Men don't mind having women in the men's room, those rules are only to protect the fairer sex.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Science doesn't have the ability to give someone born male the genitalia of a female. The best they can do is copy the cosmetic appearance of that genetalia. This is like putting the body of a sports car on the chassis of a compact car, it doesn't change the performance.




Men don't mind having women in the men's room, those rules are only to protect the fairer sex.



The genitals of males and females are very similar in structure and contractile tissue. In the womb all fetuses are similar and the major difference is gonads as opposed to ovaries but as said before are similar.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

wait, saying I don't care about other people and thier beliefs is me being prejudiced? I would think that's the exact opposite. /facepalm


I think she took it as you placing your beliefs above theirs; that yours are more valid and therefore regardless of what other people believe, you want to enfoce your beliefs.

That does seem to be what I remember from your posts, but I could be remembering incorrectly.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Does this mean at crowded sports events when there are not enough toilets for women, they can use the urinals of the mens restrooms?

Why couldn't they use the stalls in the men's restrooms?
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Oh it started out ridiculous.

That tells me quite a bit right there.

I'll be straight up with you. What you would like to do is nice. But the problem is that while sometimes sentiments may be nice, they don't conform to reality very well in certain instances.

It's like this. Sid Gillman derived pro offenses, such as the Air Coryell offenses are nice and elegant. However, they require receivers like Randy Moss and quarterbacks like Daute Culpepper to make it work. It doesn't work with wide receivers who are only capable of running one hundred yards in 12 seconds or quarterbacks who can only throw 20 yards. Not only that but you need coaches who understand it's strengths and weaknesses. So you need coaches like Larry Coryell, not the simple minded tight T formation coaches of the little leagues. Such simple minded coaches will only get people seriously hurt. Currently society is not made up of the Randy Moss's, Daute Culpepper's, or Larry Coryell's in the analogous sense to do what you would like to do. Your post demonstrates that you don't understand this and bears witness that such is the state of the world today.
 
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Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?


I was actually joking there.

But in all seriousness, I've accidentally used the men's restroom at WalMart before (didn't even notice the urinals until I was leaving, that's how bad I had to go). And I've seen and known women who used the men's restrooms, even with men in there, because the line for the women's restroom was too long.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

i was actually joking there.

But in all seriousness, i've accidentally used the men's restroom at walmart before (didn't even notice the urinals until i was leaving, that's how bad i had to go). And i've seen and known women who used the men's restrooms, even with men in there, because the line for the women's restroom was too long.

yes i have hear of it at sports events, because there are not enough women's restrooms...which is where my comment is based.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

yes i have hear of it at sports events, because there are not enough women's restrooms...which is where my comment is based.

My experience was actually at bars. My friend was pretty bold and wasn't afraid at all to use the men's restroom, even if the place was crowded.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

My experience was actually at bars. My friend was pretty bold and wasn't afraid at all to use the men's restroom, even if the place was crowded.

that is because men don't really care, especially if the woman is "hot"
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

That tells me quite a bit right there.

I'll be straight up with you. What you would like to do is nice. But the problem is that while sometimes sentiments may be nice, they don't conform to reality very well in certain instances.

It's like this. Sid Gillman derived pro offenses, such as the Air Coryell offenses are nice and elegant. However, they require receivers like Randy Moss and quarterbacks like Daute Culpepper to make it work. It doesn't work with wide receivers who are only capable of running one hundred yards in 12 seconds or quarterbacks who can only throw 20 yards. Not only that but you need coaches who understand it's strengths and weaknesses. So you need coaches like Larry Coryell, not the simple minded tight T formation coaches of the little leagues. Such simple minded coaches will only get people seriously hurt. Currently society is not made up of the Randy Moss's, Daute Culpepper's, or Larry Coryell's in the analogous sense to do what you would like to do. Your post demonstrates that you don't understand this and bears witness that such is the state of the world today.

You're confusing two different problems. One is the law, that is what this thread is about. The other is public perception and recognition of gender equality. Applying laws based on biology seem to hurt transsexuals by not allowing their transition, although it wouldn't prohibit any of the behaviors involved in that transition. Applying laws based on gender seems the compassionate solution, but can lead to more problems such as transmen getting pregnant in prison, and it only reinforces traditional false sexist stereotypes.

I agree that society might not be ready to ignore gender, but if you codify the differences as law how is that going to advance things? A child born today as male who wants to wear a dress (for example) is likely to be told maybe he's actually female, instead of being told it's fine for boys to wear dresses. Of course he's going to identify as transgender, because people are thinking in terms of behavior rather than biology. The problem with this is that he might not identify with all the other parts of being female - no one really wants to be a stereotype. Every person should be able to do whatever they want, and categorizing people by behavior or mode of thinking instead of by biology makes that goal harder to achieve.
 
Well, what do you think?

Yes. This is another one of those culture fights that opponents are certain to lose. The fact that we're even having this discussion is a sign of how much ground cultural conservatism has lost over the past two decades.
 
Yes. This is another one of those culture fights that opponents are certain to lose. The fact that we're even having this discussion is a sign of how much ground cultural conservatism has lost over the past two decades.

This one is different though. On the other issues they're wrong, but on this one they are factually correct.
 
This one is different though. On the other issues they're wrong, but on this one they are factually correct.

Anatomically correct at least. Regardless they will lose. You can choose to die on the hill over this but the outcome of this fight is clear. It's just a matter of time.
 
Anatomically correct at least. Regardless they will lose. You can choose to die on the hill over this but the outcome of this fight is clear. It's just a matter of time.

Not one doctor will say hormones and surgery bridges the gap and nor will any other expert. They are wrong on everything so they run to redherrings and irrelevant genetic diseases that just leave them looking stupid when the truth behind those conditions are told to them. They literally have nothing but appearances, falsehoods, and emotion. All biological facts are against them. The treatment doesn't even fix the underling issue, ffs. Oh, and anatomically they are in fact wrong as well.
 
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Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

You're confusing two different problems.

No I am not. They are the same problem. The main problem is that there is simply not the type of leadership in society today to implement what you would like to put forward. It requires a very deep level of understanding and detachment from mundane influence to do such. People who don't have these types of qualifications will simply get people hurt. Therefore it is better to have laws that can deal with the situation at hand in a practical manner.

That is to be quite frank.
 
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