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Should transwomen be legally treated as women?[W:165,1392]

Should transwomen be legally trreated as women?

  • Total voters
    160
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Unrepresented said:
As provided multiple times, intersex beings provide a continuum. They have a combination or absence of X and Y chromosomes outside of the "standard."
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I present, here, a set of 20,001 points.

All but three of these points fall in the range of ±1.0

There are three points that are very far outside of that range. They make up approximately 0.015% of all the data.

Do the three outliers points tell us anything useful or relevant about the remaining 19,998 points?

I say that they do not. The 19,998 points are all defined by a simple, consistent rule. Out of 20,001 times this rule was applied, something “broke” thrice. Something happened that is abnormal, and is not relevant to what happened the other 19,998 times. They are not part of any continuum; they are defects, outside of the continuum.

It is not valid to say that what happened in those three abnormal cases has any bearing on what happens in the 19,998 normal cases, nor is it valid to try to define or understand the normal cases based on the abnormal outliers.

Outliers.jpg

As far as human sexuality goes, the normal case is that a human (or any other mammal, for that matter) either has an XY chromosome pattern and “boy parts”, and is male, or else has an XX chromosome pattern and “girl parts”, and is female. That is an absolute, immutable, and undeniable biological fact, and the extremely rare abnormal outliers do not disprove it.

View attachment Outliers.zip
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

AGENT J said:
????? how does faking to be transgender possibly support a pedophile?
that doesnt make any sense?
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I can easily see a pedophile dressing up and pretending to be a transgender person just to, at the very least, take a peek at some little girl.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?[W:65]

Some people need to go back to statistics and this time not fail at learning what ouliners are. Then go and ask your science teacher what genetic diseases are and why they are not subjective. Jesus people, the excuses in these threads are idiotic.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Henrin said:
Genetic knowledge is not subjective. You're basically making an anti-science argument.
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Genetic knowledge is not subjective. Selective groupings are.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Bob Blaylock said:
I present, here, a set of 20,001 points.

All but three of these points fall in the range of ±1.0

There are three points that are very far outside of that range. They make up approximately 0.015% of all the data.

Do the three outliers points tell us anything useful or relevant about the remaining 19,998 points?

I say that they do not. The 19,998 points are all defined by a simple, consistent rule. Out of 20,001 times this rule was applied, something “broke” thrice. Something happened that is abnormal, and is not relevant to what happened the other 19,998 times. They are not part of any continuum; they are defects, outside of the continuum.

It is not valid to say that what happened in those three abnormal cases has any bearing on what happens in the 19,998 normal cases, nor is it valid to try to define or understand the normal cases based on the abnormal outliers.

View attachment 67182983

As far as human sexuality goes, the normal case is that a human (or any other mammal, for that matter) either has an XY chromosome pattern and “boy parts”, and is male, or else has an XX chromosome pattern and “girl parts”, and is female. That is an absolute, immutable, and undeniable biological fact, and the extremely rare abnormal outliers do not disprove it.

View attachment 67182984
Click to expand...

Out of billions of people that've walked this planet, only a tiny handful have walked on the moon. It's a lot easier to just round down to humanity never having walked on the moon, right?
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Unrepresented said:
Genetic knowledge is not subjective. Selective groupings are.
Click to expand...

That still makes no sense. The individuals that suffer from the genetic disease you mentioned are grouped together because they all share the same condition. Males or females are also grouped together because of their bioloigical and genetic characteristics, not because someone justed wanted to do it. There is nothing subjective about this and I'm sorry but MTF individuals are male.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Unrepresented said:
Out of billions of people that've walked this planet, only a tiny handful have walked on the moon. It's a lot easier to just round down to humanity never having walked on the moon, right?
Click to expand...

People that suffer from a genetic disease are outliers and can not be used to describe the norm. Including the outliers in your calculation will only lead to an incorrect conclusion.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Henrin said:
That still makes no sense. The individuals that suffer from the genetic disease you mentioned are grouped together because they all share the same condition. Males or females are also grouped together because of their bioloigical and genetic characteristics, not because someone justed wanted to do it. There is nothing subjective about this and I'm sorry but MTF individuals are male.
Click to expand...
If we're sorting people by chromosomes, then yes, they all share characteristic chromosomes makeup. You're extrapolating beyond that when you're claiming greater definitions.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Unrepresented said:
Out of billions of people that've walked this planet, only a tiny handful have walked on the moon. It's a lot easier to just round down to humanity never having walked on the moon, right?
Click to expand...

It's difficult to discern that you have any point there. That, as a result of an extremely complex and costly government effort, a handful of people have had the privilege of walking on the Moon, really doesn't tell us anything at all useful about the vast majority of us who have no realistic chance of ever doing so.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Henrin said:
Genetic knowledge is not subjective. You're basically making an anti-science argument.
Click to expand...

Calling a genetic deviation a "defect" is subjective. High intelligence is a genetic deviation - but I don't think we call it a "defect". So yes, the concept of a defect is a social construct.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

paddymcdougall said:
Calling a genetic deviation a "defect" is subjective. High intelligence is a genetic deviation - but I don't think we call it a "defect". So yes, the concept of a defect is a social construct.
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Seriously, it is literally a genetic disease. That is a defect.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Henrin said:
That still makes no sense. The individuals that suffer from the genetic disease you mentioned are grouped together because they all share the same condition. Males or females are also grouped together because of their bioloigical and genetic characteristics, not because someone justed wanted to do it. There is nothing subjective about this and I'm sorry but MTF individuals are male.
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Similar chromosomes don't define themselves as a disease, societies do. Similar chromosomes don't define themselves as having a gender, societies do.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Henrin said:
People that suffer from a genetic disease are outliers and can not be used to describe the norm. Including the outliers in your calculation will only lead to an incorrect conclusion.
Click to expand...
You're using the norm to define outliers, why is the opposite wrong?
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Unrepresented said:
You're using the norm to define outliers, why is the opposite wrong?
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Ask your statistics teacher or a scientist.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Bob Blaylock said:
It's difficult to discern that you have any point there. That, as a result of an extremely complex and costly government effort, a handful of people have had the privilege of walking on the Moon, really doesn't tell us anything at all useful about the vast majority of us who have no realistic chance of ever doing so.
Click to expand...
The point is that outliers are valid data even if they're not representative of the majority.

Science isn't about ignoring data that conflicts with your hypothesis.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Henrin said:
Seriously, it is literally a genetic disease. That is a defect.
Click to expand...

genetic differences is part of why humans have been so successful. We define a deviation as a disease or as a helpful mutation. Defect is a social concept.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Unrepresented said:
The point is that outliers are valid data even if they're not representative of the majority.

Science isn't about ignoring data that conflicts with your hypothesis.
Click to expand...

I.e. most of us don't consider being left-handed as a defect or a disease, even if it's an outlier.

Bob Blaylock has different ideas.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Unrepresented said:
The point is that outliers are valid data even if they're not representative of the majority.

Science isn't about ignoring data that conflicts with your hypothesis.
Click to expand...

I spent eighteen years working as a data analyst I know something about evaluating outliers, and determining what significance, if any, to attribute to them relative to the normal data.

In this case, the outliers simply do not mean what you want them to mean.

There's a very clear, unambiguous process, by which sex-determination takes place in mammals. 99.8% of the time, it happens exactly as it is supposed to; the creature is conceived with XY or XX chromosomes, and fully formed during gestation and further during adolescence, to be either fully male, or fully female, respectively; leaving no rational basis on which to claim that there is any such thing as “gender” that doesn't match the biological sex. Even the “transgenders” who are the topic of this thread, are, in the vast majority of instances, products of a correctly-executed sex-selection, and their “gender”-related delusions and claims notwithstanding, their biological sex is unambiguous and undeniable.

The outliers in this case are caused by defects in the sex-selection process, resulting either from genetic abnormalities or hormone-related abnormalities. They are extremely rare, and the manner in which they differ from normal cases has no relevance to how sex-selection takes place in normal cases. They are “valid data” only in that they demonstrate that once in a great while, the process that normally occurs without a hitch goes rather badly astray, producing a freak result.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

paddymcdougall said:
genetic differences is part of why humans have been so successful. We define a deviation as a disease or as a helpful mutation. Defect is a social concept.
Click to expand...

You do realize this is not a helpful mutation, right? Please stop arguing with the use of generic arguments and research genetic diseases.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

paddymcdougall said:
I.e. most of us don't consider being left-handed as a defect or a disease, even if it's an outlier.

Bob Blaylock has different ideas.
Click to expand...

Perhaps you should leave it to me to express what my ideas are, and how they differ from what other ideas. KLess risk, that way, of embarrassing yourself by being caught saying something that is both wrong and incredibly stupid, as you just did.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

paddymcdougall said:
I.e. most of us don't consider being left-handed as a defect or a disease, even if it's an outlier.

Bob Blaylock has different ideas.
Click to expand...

Can you please look up intersex, geez.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Henrin said:
You do realize this is not a helpful mutation, right? Please stop arguing with the use of generic arguments and research genetic diseases.
Click to expand...
"Helpful" is defined by context. It's not "helpful" to have limited melanin in an area with heavy sun exposure. It's not "helpful" to have excessive melanin in an area with limited sun exposure. Neither is objectively helpful.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Bob Blaylock said:
I spent eighteen years working as a data analyst I know something about evaluating outliers, and determining what significance, if any, to attribute to them relative to the normal data.

In this case, the outliers simply do not mean what you want them to mean.

There's a very clear, unambiguous process, by which sex-determination takes place in mammals. 99.8% of the time, it happens exactly as it is supposed to; the creature is conceived with XY or XX chromosomes, and fully formed during gestation and further during adolescence, to be either fully male, or fully female, respectively; leaving no rational basis on which to claim that there is any such thing as “gender” that doesn't match the biological sex. Even the “transgenders” who are the topic of this thread, are, in the vast majority of instances, products of a correctly-executed sex-selection, and their “gender”-related delusions and claims notwithstanding, their biological sex is unambiguous and undeniable.

The outliers in this case are caused by defects in the sex-selection process, resulting either from genetic abnormalities or hormone-related abnormalities. They are extremely rare, and the manner in which they differ from normal cases has no relevance to how sex-selection takes place in normal cases. They are “valid data” only in that they demonstrate that once in a great while, the process that normally occurs without a hitch goes rather badly astray, producing a freak result.
Click to expand...
Everything that's alive today was created by a "defect." That doesn't make archeo bacteria the norm and the rest of the planet defects.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Unrepresented said:
"Helpful" is defined by context. It's not "helpful" to have limited melanin in an area with heavy sun exposure. It's not "helpful" to have excessive melanin in an area with limited sun exposure. Neither is objectively helpful.
Click to expand...

/facepalm

You know, there is a reason people evolved to have different skin tones and it was helpful to people to live in their environments. There is and there was any benefit to being intersex. It is a genetic disease, period.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

MildSteel said:
Wrong, not all women have ovaries. I have clearly demonstrated how that is not the case. There is no need to go further, unless you have another line of thought to put forward.
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You've demonstrated what the perception is of what being a woman means, but that's not the definition that matters. Biology matters. Perception can be changed. Much better to base laws on actual physical reality that cannot be altered and has real-world reproductive consequences, than to base laws on stereotypes that are proven wrong every day and have no specific or persistent meaning and fail to define the issue in a useful, practical way.
 
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