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Should transwomen be legally treated as women?[W:165,1392]

Should transwomen be legally trreated as women?

  • Total voters
    160
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

MildSteel said:
I have already discussed it, but to repeat:

The condition of being a woman is based on more than just a composition of chromosomes, and the nature of a person's reproductive system. This is easily demonstrated by THE FACT than some women have the chromosomal structure as males and do not have the organs necessary for reproduction. While it is true that such instances are exceptions, they are there nonetheless, and these individuals do not feel that they are not women as a result. In fact some do not notice it until they note that they do not experience the phenomenon of menstruation.



Swyer syndrome

Rather the condition of being a woman can be more accurately described as an experience characterized by such things as

1. Sexuality
2. Tastes in the presentation of appearance, such as choice of clothing
3. Biological functions
4. Anatomical structures
5. Tastes in activity
6. Tastes in aesthetics

Although there is variance among women within these items, when we note a strong presence of some or all of these that are common to women in general, then we can say that the person is indeed undergoing the experience of being a woman. As such, it is not unrealistic to treat them in that way, at the very least in the legal sense.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/221321-should-transwomen-legally-treated-women-w-65-a-18.html#post1064512300

So a few points

1. Although one can put forward the notion that a women is someone who has XY chromosomes, we observe that there are women born with male chromosomes who identify themselves as female.

2. Although some women who have the biological characteristics of female chromosomes and sexual reproductive organs, they still identify themselves as being male.

3. Altering biological characteristics does not necessarily result in the self identification of being a woman.

Therefore we can conclude that the experience of being a woman, although it is related to biological characteristics, is not necessarily dependent on them, i.e. there is more to being a woman than having female biological and anatomical characteristics.
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You are attributing things to the "experience of being a woman" that are considered as such due to traditional gender roles, but have little or nothing to do with biological sex. Which stereotype you identify yourself with isn't important, because the stereotypes are wrong. A woman has ovaries, a man has testicles, there is no more to being a man or woman than that. These other things you attribute to men and women, ie masculinity and femininity, are false stereotypes dating from a culture before sexual equality existed.

To say women are women because they act or feel a certain way (rather than because of a biological reproductive difference) is saying that women can only be feminine, and this is sexual discrimination. This would be akin to defining race by taste in music rather than ethnic heritage, or defining age by maturity level rather than chronology. Such views are false, prejudiced, outdated, vary by time and local culture, and should not be used to define gender, and definitely shouldn't be used to define laws.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?[W:65]

MildSteel said:
Well, what do you think?
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Of course :shrug:

some are already legally the gender they have transed too
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Kal'Stang said:
Only AFTER the sex change operation. Before then no. Too many chances and too easy to fake it for nefarious purposes. Yeah, its not fair to transgenders. It sucks having to worry about perverts (pedophilia by those that will no doubt fake it now that transgenderism is becoming more and more accepted) at the expense of transgenders. Well, more than sucks. :/

And yes, I know that not everyone can afford a sex change operation. That is why I would support government help in getting that operation for free.
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????? how does faking to be transgender possibly support a pedophile?
that doesnt make any sense?
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Bob Blaylock said:
I would have to very strongly object to my taxes being used to pay for something that is that blatantly insane and immoral.

Government should not be used to support that which is overtly evil and destructive.

I have to seriously question the ethics of any physician who would willingly take part in such madness, but at the very least, anyone who wants such treatment needs to pay for it out of his own pocket, and not impose that cost on others.




It's easy not to care about an expense that you can force others to pay instead of taking responsibility for it yourself.
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another perfect example of bigoted and hateful statements, thanks bob
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

roguenuke said:
No. There are absolutely no stats to show that it is dangerous to a woman to have transgendered women changing in the locker rooms with them or for a policy that allows people into the locker room of the gender they identify as. And the women using the locker room, do not own the locker room. They don't get to make the policy about who uses it, the owners do.
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I hope that you are doing that on purpose... othewise I have lost all of my faith in you.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Henrin said:
Do you believe that story of hers? I don't.
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After this encounter with her I find it hard to believe anything she says...
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Urethra Franklin said:
So the poor guy who's had his amputated due to cancer (yes, it happens) is no longer male?

Come on Bod, these issues are never that black and white. Gender identity, like sexuality, is so much to do with what you feel inside.
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First, was he born with it? Yes.

Second, I have repeatedly stated that it is not black and white...

Third, a male biologically is a male.,, just a fact.

Lastly, gender identity is fine. No problem with it.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Bodhisattva said:
I hope that you are doing that on purpose... othewise I have lost all of my faith in you.
Click to expand...

What other reason would there be to not legally recognize a transgendered woman or man as such?

I get that this makes some people uncomfortable, I do. But that is still their discomfort. They need to deal with it. Just as people need to deal with discomfort over so many other things, such as having people breastfeeding in public or even having those of the same sex either naked in front of them or seeing them get naked. Plus, what about the men who would feel uncomfortable with a transgender woman in their locker room? Their feelings of discomfort aren't important? Why wouldn't women also feel uncomfortable with this "woman" around them in places like the restroom or locker room?

galleryimage773816890-feb-5-2012-600x479.jpg

10 Handsome Men (Who Were Born Female) (transgender female to male, female to male transformation) - ODDEE

Or any of these guys really, because that is what women would see them as, men, despite their being transgendered/transsexual men, meaning they were born as women and would be viewed as "women" to many arguing "you can't change what you are born as".

Simply repeating "well they are a man or woman physically", really isn't an argument. It doesn't get down to why they need that label and why that label can't be changed, let alone what that label is really based on. There are plenty of ways to describe a "woman" or a "man" biologically, and then plenty of ways to completely defeat that definition with what happens in real life. And when people almost always judge gender by appearance, usually how a person is dressed, presents themself, then it shows that gender is not really dependent on those physical characteristics. Sex might be for most, but gender would deal with how we refer to people, "yes ma'am", "no sir", she, he, her, him, etc.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

roguenuke said:
......
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Ignored and bye... won't take the idiocy or ignoring/lying any further...
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Henrin said:
That is of no importance to the case in question. The individual is a man and from the sounds of it they were married before surgery.
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Another Henrinian proclamation.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Tsunami said:
A woman has ovaries, a man has testicles, there is no more to being a man or woman than that.
Click to expand...

Wrong, not all women have ovaries. I have clearly demonstrated how that is not the case. There is no need to go further, unless you have another line of thought to put forward.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

MildSteel said:
Do you have anything to post besides insults?
Click to expand...

Do you often mistakes point of fact with insults?
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Bodhisattva said:
Do you often mistakes point of fact with insults?
Click to expand...

You mistake your personal animosity against me for facts. You have nothing to post but insults. As I suggested earlier, why don't you go down to the place where it is allowed, post one of your childish threads and engage in your disrespectful behavior to your hearts content. You simply don't have anything substantial to say.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

I would if you had something to offer... as it is though you ignore facts and that does not warrant you an opportunity to Downstairs Wonderland...
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Sterile, disrespectful posts do not contain substance. They are what they are, shallow and childish.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

roguenuke said:
The parents did. However, it should be going back to court, probably due to the questions about legal same sex marriages and gender recognition.

Nikki Araguz - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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MildSteel said:
Yes! I remember that. I felt so sorry for her. Here is a wedding picture

628x471.jpg


Looks like the a Texas appeals court overturned a lower court ruling. So the case is still being litigated. It is a good example of the types of trials and tribulations that transgendered women face



Texas courts rule in favor of transgender widower - FOX 26 News | MyFoxHouston
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Thanks for the updates. I hope she does prevail.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Urethra Franklin said:
I've no problem using the womens' bathroom with transwomen, or using mixed facilities with men. YOU GO INTO THE CUBICLE AND YOU LOCK THE FREAKING DOOR. It's actually quite simple.
Click to expand...

So, lets say a convicted sex offender who's raped women, decides one day he's a woman, and starts dressing like one, would you still have "no problem"?


and yeah, as I said, personally I don't care who uses what bathrooms, but can see why others would have an issue with it.


Note the man who claims ad nauseum not to be a bigot is now having a go at the trans community.
Click to expand...


right, there is that far left PC kook accusation again. Look, as I said numerous times, I don't care what you choose to do to your body, or what you believe you are. I have a problem being forced to accept others delusions as reality.

I don't advocate discrimination, or any laws against these choices. I simply don't accept being forced to accept things which are not true.



You are far less tolerant than I am. *shrug*
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

MildSteel said:
I have already discussed it, but to repeat:

The condition of being a woman is based on more than just a composition of chromosomes, and the nature of a person's reproductive system. This is easily demonstrated by THE FACT than some women have the chromosomal structure as males and do not have the organs necessary for reproduction. While it is true that such instances are exceptions, they are there nonetheless, and these individuals do not feel that they are not women as a result. In fact some do not notice it until they note that they do not experience the phenomenon of menstruation.



Swyer syndrome

Rather the condition of being a woman can be more accurately described as an experience characterized by such things as

1. Sexuality
2. Tastes in the presentation of appearance, such as choice of clothing
3. Biological functions
4. Anatomical structures
5. Tastes in activity
6. Tastes in aesthetics

Although there is variance among women within these items, when we note a strong presence of some or all of these that are common to women in general, then we can say that the person is indeed undergoing the experience of being a woman. As such, it is not unrealistic to treat them in that way, at the very least in the legal sense.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/221321-should-transwomen-legally-treated-women-w-65-a-18.html#post1064512300

So a few points

1. Although one can put forward the notion that a women is someone who has XY chromosomes, we observe that there are women born with male chromosomes who identify themselves as female.

2. Although some women who have the biological characteristics of female chromosomes and sexual reproductive organs, they still identify themselves as being male.

3. Altering biological characteristics does not necessarily result in the self identification of being a woman.

Therefore we can conclude that the experience of being a woman, although it is related to biological characteristics, is not necessarily dependent on them, i.e. there is more to being a woman than having female biological and anatomical characteristics.
Click to expand...



So this rare syndrome proves what? This is a biological condition.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

digsbe said:
Bottom line though, they have the right to be trans and people shouldn't stop them. But they also should never have the right to demand that others recognize their status, force their identity and definition of gender upon others or be recognized biologically as anything other than their birth sex.
Click to expand...



The whole post is right on. this is the bottom line.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

ReverendHellh0und said:
So, lets say a convicted sex offender who's raped women, decides one day he's a woman, and starts dressing like one, would you still have "no problem"?

and yeah, as I said, personally I don't care who uses what bathrooms, but can see why others would have an issue with it.

right, there is that far left PC kook accusation again. Look, as I said numerous times, I don't care what you choose to do to your body, or what you believe you are. I have a problem being forced to accept others delusions as reality.

I don't advocate discrimination, or any laws against these choices. I simply don't accept being forced to accept things which are not true.

You are far less tolerant than I am. *shrug*
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A convicted sex offender would still have to register as their current name and with their current address. They would still be being tracked by law enforcement. Could there be issues? Sure. Could the transwoman changing with me in the locker room really be a sex offender? Yes. But so could the cisgender woman changing with me in the locker room.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

roguenuke said:
A convicted sex offender would still have to register as their current name and with their current address. They would still be being tracked by law enforcement. Could there be issues? Sure. Could the transwoman changing with me in the locker room really be a sex offender? Yes. But so could the cisgender woman changing with me in the locker room.
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So, if this guy simply identifies himself as a woman, you'd be ok with sharing space with him er I mean "her"?

ariel_castro_mugshot_photo.jpg
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

ReverendHellh0und said:
So, if this guy simply identifies himself as a woman, you'd be ok with sharing space with him er I mean "her"?

View attachment 67182971
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How would I know? I don't make it a point of memorizing the faces of sex offenders. Even if I were, I'd be much more interested in sex offenders who were child molesters or who were convicted of crimes against children than those against women. I know how to tell people, to scream, to protect myself at least to a point where, in a public restroom or locker room or changing room, someone should either be available or within hearing distance to help me. If not, then what is stopping any man like that from simply following me in the restroom/locker room/changing room and doing whatever without the extensive charade?
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

roguenuke said:
How would I know? I don't make it a point of memorizing the faces of sex offenders. Even if I were, I'd be much more interested in sex offenders who were child molesters or who were convicted of crimes against children than those against women. I know how to tell people, to scream, to protect myself at least to a point where, in a public restroom or locker room or changing room, someone should either be available or within hearing distance to help me. If not, then what is stopping any man like that from simply following me in the restroom/locker room/changing room and doing whatever without the extensive charade?
Click to expand...




So the answer is "yes" any man who claims to be a woman, no matter what, has a right to use the ladies room.


I disagree.
 
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