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Should transwomen be legally treated as women?[W:165,1392]

Should transwomen be legally trreated as women?

  • Total voters
    160
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Unrepresented said:
Intersex gives us an excellent example of how gender isn't a binary issue, and is much more complex than two chromosomes. If we can accept that there are gradients within gender and sex, accepting transgender becomes the next obvious mental step.
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No, it's just another nonsense example like XX women.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Unrepresented said:
I'm defining it as the social construct that it is.
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And you are at best being loose with the word woman to call MTF women. If you were even attempting to be accurate you would realize they are not the same.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Henrin said:
No, it's just another nonsense example like XX women.
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There are XX "women," there are XY "women," there are XXX "women," and X "women."
Henrin said:
And you are at best being loose with the word woman to call MTF women. If you were even attempting to be accurate you would realize they are not the same.
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No two people are the same. You're artificially separating things into classifications that are arbitrary.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Unrepresented said:
There are XX "women," there are XY "women," there are XXX "women," and X "women."
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Yes, I meant XY women. It's way too late for me to be posting.:lamo

No two people are the same. You're artificially separating things into classifications that are arbitrary.
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Really? And what exactly do you have to support that claim?
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Your Star said:
No brainier, absolutely.

The same goes for transmen; they should be treated as men.
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No. Then they can qualify for the Olympics as women and that is not right nor fair... They get in a fight iwth a real woman and kill her.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Dovkan said:
Henrin, you never cease to amaze me with your bigotry.
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It is shocking and a little bit sad when one is called a bigot for correctly calling a man a man... :roll:
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Dovkan said:
:applaud I rest my case.
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That you think that your PC opinion beats bilogical fact? :lol: That is idiotic.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

MildSteel said:
You say that based on what?
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The fact that they have a dick and balls... do you have any balls left or has the PC machine stashed them away for you? ;)
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Dovkan said:
I always wonder why people stereotype most conservatives/republicans for having similar views and being bigots, they don't appear to be wrong.
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Your bigotry against conservatives is noted.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Unrepresented said:
Intersex gives us an excellent example of how gender isn't a binary issue, and is much more complex than two chromosomes. If we can accept that there are gradients within gender and sex, accepting transgender becomes the next obvious mental step.
Click to expand...

Intersex is a rare aberration. It has nothing to do with the remaining more than 99% of humanity who, as a matter of objective, concrete fact, are either fully-male, or fully-female, and not anything in between.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Unrepresented said:
Intersex gives us an excellent example of how gender isn't a binary issue, and is much more complex than two chromosomes. If we can accept that there are gradients within gender and sex, accepting transgender becomes the next obvious mental step.
Click to expand...

Henrin said:
No, it's just another nonsense example like XX women.
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No, Intersex is a real phenomenon, but it doesn't mean what Unrepresented claims that it mean.

There are a number of very rare genetic and hormonal conditions that truly do result in a person who is not fully-male nor fully-female. But they have nothing to do with transgenderism.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Unrepresented said:
No two people are the same. You're artificially separating things into classifications that are arbitrary.
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There's nothing artificial nor arbitrary about the distinction between male and female. Each has essential biological traits that distinguish it from the other, and it takes both to reproduce.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

cpwill said:
Ah yes. Whereas Liberals, of course, are not trying to codify anything into law whatsoever. :roll:


You have to decide, for legal purposes, one way or the other. Attempting to blame that fact on one side or the other in order to wax poetic with rhetoric maybe sounds good in your head, but reads poorly to anyone willing to apply logic.
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Well you have one side saying that if recognizing a transgendered person as the sex they transitioned to does not impact the rights of others, which it doesn't, then we should. The reason for this is that while it doesn't impact anyone else's lives, it does impact the transgendered person's life. For example, they would be able to marry in all states. They could adopt and form families. It makes a huge difference in their lives.

In contrast we have another side saying that this really bothers them, so while it doesn't make one bit of difference to their lives at all, since it really bothers them they want their beliefs codified into law. And that folks is authoritarianism in action.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Kal'Stang said:
And social liberals are any different? I believe that you and I are currently discussing something else which puts us at odds. I'm arguing for more freedom for business owners, you're arguing to punish business owners that don't serve SSM.

Funny that.....
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Yes I am in favor of someone being able to purchase a product in a public business without being denied due to their race, color, gender, sexual orientation, or religion. You are denying the fact that businesses agree to operate under a state and communities laws and regulations when they open for business in that state or community and to further your argument you invent rights out of thin air for that business - rights that don't exist for a business in any free society on earth.

However that is not comparable to this. If you can't purchase a product sold in a business simply due to your race or sexual orientation, then that impacts your life. Granting transgendered legal recognition of the sex they transitioned to, impacts no one's life but that individual and their family.
 
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Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Sure why not? As far as government contracts or scholarships to women and transwoman getting them I could care less.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Your Star said:
No brainier, absolutely.

The same goes for transmen; they should be treated as men.
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so would you have a sexual relationship based off of someone's mentally identified gender ?
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Bob Blaylock said:
I was a baby boy. Not a girl.

Babies don't stay babies, but boys grow up to be men. Boys do not grow up to be women. Not ever.
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You WERE a baby boy, but you are not one now. Therefore we should not treat you as you are one now. What you are doing is tying a person's sex to the condition of their body, but the condition of a person's body can change. Just like we don't treat you like a baby boy, just because that was the condition of your body at birth, we should not treat someone based on the condition of their body at the time of their birth.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Josie said:
Okaaaaay.... *puts on her 1st grade teacher hat*

When humans are born, we're little people called "babies". We are biologically wired to grow into toddlers, adolescents, teenagers and then adults. We are no longer babies because we have gotten taller, our brains have developed to full potential and we can take care of ourselves. It's normal to change from a baby to an adult.
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You no longer have the body that you had when you were a baby. It is not there anymore, as such, we don't treat you like a baby. As such, to treat someone based on the condition of their body at the time of their birth is a flawed notion.

Josie said:
When we're in our mama's belly, we were assigned a gender. Our gender can never change because we cannot change our sex chromosomes no matter how we change our outward appearance.
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It is more than a condition of outward appearance. That is one thing. It is also a condition of the person's mind and ego. The other thing is that some women are born with the chromosome composition of men. That is another point.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Tsunami said:
Biological sex has been defined a number of different ways by science, and still there always seem to be exceptions. But the concept of sex comes from reproductive function, and as mentioned above that is the main purpose of differentiating between the two. So I personally would define it as such: anyone with a functional ovary is female, anyone with a functional testicle is male. This covers 99% of the population. For someone who has neither, we could define it by chromosomes, or by genitals, or simply use a third term such as "neuter" -- but it doesn't make much practical difference, as they can't reproduce so they are immune to most of the significant issues. There are intersex individuals with ambiguous genitalia born relatively often, but there has never been a true human hermaphrodite recorded by medical science with both ovary and testicle, so as far as I know this simple criteria applies to every human on earth.

This relates only to biological sex. Gender is a totally separate thing. It is based on cultural stereotypes that are mostly false. I understand sympathizing with someone who feels like they are the opposite gender, and I have no problem with treating them the way they want to be treated when feasible. That just comes down to human decency. But for legal and practical purposes, biology is better defined and a better practical criteria on almost every issue, and should be used as the basis for our laws rather than gender. This takes nothing away from a trans- person who should be free to live their life as they please, just not redefine biology.
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So why do you think biology is a better way for legal purposes?
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Goshin said:
I'd think that should be up to the person whom they failed to inform of their status prior to sexual intimacy. If the person feels they have been deceived and suffered emotional trauma as a result, I think they should have the right to sue.

If they're ok with it, well obviously they won't be filing suit.


While I realize this would put a burden on transgenders to have this legally stipulated, frankly I think it is only fair. There are lots of people who, regardless of their feelings about the transgendered IN GENERAL would nonetheless be appalled to find out they'd had sex with one without knowing it beforehand.


I don't know if this is true or not, but I'm told that an observant man will probably realize that "something is different" somewhere along the way, (I hear lingering scar tissue can be a problem in some cases), so if it is going to be revealed at some point anyway, it seems much better and more fair to all concerned to reveal it BEFORE intimacy takes place.

In some cases, it might even be important to the transgendered person's safety. I think there are still quite a few people who might react very badly to finding out "after".

In any case, it is only fair and reasonable and honest to be forthright about such things. I'd put almost (I said almost) it on par with revealing whether one has any STDs... it should be known beforehand so the partner can make a fully informed judgement about whether he/she wants to deal with the other person's situation.
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I have thought about what you have put forward. I think that there is certainly a strong case to be made for this in the case of marriage. That said, because we don't require women to disclose such things as whether or not they have had sex with animals before engaging in intercourse, I don't think transwomen should be required to disclose such, unless there is some sort of health risk to the other party.

Good point though. I had not thought about that.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

SouthernDemocrat said:
Yes I am in favor of someone being able to purchase a product in a public business without being denied due to their race, color, gender, sexual orientation, or religion. You are denying the fact that businesses agree to operate under a state and communities laws and regulations when they open for business in that state or community and to further your argument you invent rights out of thin air for that business - rights that don't exist for a business in any free society on earth.
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1: Right to association is an actual Right. You might wish to ignore that but hey, you don't have to acknowledge it for it to actually exist.

2: The fact that a business operates in communities does not strip the owners of their Rights.

SouthernDemocrat said:
However that is not comparable to this. If you can't purchase a product sold in a business simply due to your race or sexual orientation, then that impacts your life. Granting transgendered legal recognition of the sex they transitioned to, impacts no one's life but that individual and their family.
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Really? Then why did the OP have to ask the question that is posed in the poll? Apparently it affects far more than you realize.
 
Re: Should perverted men who “identify” as women be legally treated as women?

Bob Blaylock said:
Intersex is a rare aberration. It has nothing to do with the remaining more than 99% of humanity who, as a matter of objective, concrete fact, are either fully-male, or fully-female, and not anything in between.
Click to expand...

Bob Blaylock said:
No, Intersex is a real phenomenon, but it doesn't mean what Unrepresented claims that it mean.

There are a number of very rare genetic and hormonal conditions that truly do result in a person who is not fully-male nor fully-female. But they have nothing to do with transgenderism.
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The fact that they are rare doesn't mean that they're rare doesn't deny their validity. They're the most visible gray areas between social constructs of gender, but that doesn't mean that there's not gradation between genders outside of them. Everything is a gradation.
Bob Blaylock said:
There's nothing artificial nor arbitrary about the distinction between male and female. Each has essential biological traits that distinguish it from the other, and it takes both to reproduce.
Click to expand...

The distinction between male and female is a human concept. It's a concept that is largely accepted because it's largely functional, but that doesn't make it accurate.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

I voted "don't know," but let me explain. I don't think that they should legally be treated as women, because I don't really think the law should have anything to do with it. I think that people should be decent enough to treat people well, and honor the gender that they identify with, but I just don't know if I want the law involved in anything.
 
Re: Should transwomen be legally treated as women?

Most of the legal distinctions between men and women are in place to correct for sexual discrimination. While I voted "yes" if someone spent most of their life as a man and benefiting from the fact that he was a man I'm not sure that now being able to benefit from sexual discrimination laws as a woman is particularly fair but I haven't given it a whole lot of thought either to be honest.
 
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