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Should transwomen be legally treated as women?[W:165,1392]

Should transwomen be legally trreated as women?


  • Total voters
    160
1. An opinion
2. Not scientific
3. No link to source
4. Nothing about a man not being a man
5. Just about how people "feel" which is the core of my argument.
6. Anything else or is your argument actually this week?
7. I travel. I was just in Auckland for over a week and do not bother worrying about this site... I will be in Singapore later this month, Vietnam the next month and then the USA and Mexico at the end of the year for over a month and will not be checking this site. Amazingly enough though when I say that you have not given anything scientific... you have not given anything scientific. Sorry... *shrugs*

Gender is an opinion. You're simply ignoring everything i've said.

Gender is the public appearance of sex. Accepting only a strict binary is unethical, it is not rooted in biology- it's plain willful ignorance.

Chromosomes and genitalia disagree- somehow you don't care that your oversimplification has no means to explain such instances. Scientifically, the differences between sexes are not as absolute as your ignorant view suggests.
 
Gender is an opinion. You're simply ignoring everything i've said.

Gender is the public appearance of sex. Accepting only a strict binary is unethical, it is not rooted in biology- it's plain willful ignorance.

Chromosomes and genitalia disagree- somehow you don't care that your oversimplification has no means to explain such instances. Scientifically, the differences between sexes are not as absolute as your ignorant view suggests.

How is a binary sex not rooted in biology?
How is it unethical?
 
How is a binary sex not rooted in biology?
How is it unethical?

Biologically, there is not just male and female. There is also intersex.

Trans* are a subset of intersex. Would you like them to simply never use bathrooms so you can find comfort your ignorance ?

It's unethical because it is a form of oppression. Failure to fit into binary gender roles creates stress. Alienation and derision facilitate a ridiculously high suicide rate.
 
Put another way, biologically there are different sex organs, different secondary sex characteristics, and the two categories 'male' and 'female' are not able to describe the entire population.

It's an oversimplification that implicitly insults a material set of the population.
 
Put another way, biologically there are different sex organs, different secondary sex characteristics, and the two categories 'male' and 'female' are not able to describe the entire population.

It's an oversimplification that implicitly insults a material set of the population.

That isn't the argument so I call Red Herring AND Straw Man

The argument is: Is a man that thinks he is a woman really a woman. The answer is no, he is still a man.
 
Biologically, there is not just male and female. There is also intersex.

Trans* are a subset of intersex. Would you like them to simply never use bathrooms so you can find comfort your ignorance ?

It's unethical because it is a form of oppression. Failure to fit into binary gender roles creates stress. Alienation and derision facilitate a ridiculously high suicide rate.

Causing stress is a form of oppression? Guess we are all oppressed then... who knew?
 
That isn't the argument so I call Red Herring AND Straw Man

The argument is: Is a man that thinks he is a woman really a woman. The answer is no, he is still a man.

Your definition of "man" is incorrect.

Causing stress is a form of oppression? Guess we are all oppressed then... who knew?

Causing excessive stress to a minority for no discernible reason is a form of oppression.
 
Your definition of "man" is incorrect

Not "my" definition... it is "science's" and therefore "humanities" definition.

a : a male person : a man or a boy
b : an individual that produces small usually motile gametes (as spermatozoa or spermatozoids) which fertilize the eggs of a female


Male | Definition of male by Merriam-Webster

Causing excessive stress to a minority for no discernible reason is a form of oppression.

Is a person diagnosed with ADD but doesn't feel it is that accurate and is stressed as a result is being oppressed?
 
Biologically, there is not just male and female. There is also intersex.

Trans* are a subset of intersex. Would you like them to simply never use bathrooms so you can find comfort your ignorance ?

It's unethical because it is a form of oppression. Failure to fit into binary gender roles creates stress. Alienation and derision facilitate a ridiculously high suicide rate.

Lmao... Ok, so, I remember sex Ed, I am aware how male and female produce babies... How does that happen with a trans and intersex couple?
 
Not "my" definition... it is "science's" and therefore "humanities" definition.

a : a male person : a man or a boy
b : an individual that produces small usually motile gametes (as spermatozoa or spermatozoids) which fertilize the eggs of a female


Male | Definition of male by Merriam-Webster



Is a person diagnosed with ADD but doesn't feel it is that accurate and is stressed as a result is being oppressed?

You're just using a circular definition to satisfy your ignorance.

Stress can happen for all sorts of reasons. By telling someone their gender is illegitimate, you insult them, and that creates stress where there was none.

Go walk into a bikers bar and insult some big, gruff bikers masculinity. See if he considers that a compliment.

Lmao... Ok, so, I remember sex Ed, I am aware how male and female produce babies... How does that happen with a trans and intersex couple?

Oh, is a sterile person with male genitalia not a man ?
 
As she would not have any testicles to check probably not, I get the jist of your issue though. I'll grant that there will obviously be part of the body that retain the original genetics and physiology, these aspects should indeed be monitored as should mine.

Now...you can answer a question for me.

Is there some reason that you feel so involved in the sex lives of complete strangers?

This isn't being involved in the sex life; this is about speaking bluntly about what something is and what it is not. A man is a man, and you cannot change your sex.
 
This isn't being involved in the sex life; this is about speaking bluntly about what something is and what it is not. A man is a man, and you cannot change your sex.

This is obviously accurate...but is also most certainly you having an interest or fascination with someone elses sex life. That is the core of what this topic is about. Those who have a problem with transsexuals complaining about it, and those who do not defending them.
 
This is obviously accurate...but is also most certainly you having an interest or fascination with someone elses sex life. That is the core of what this topic is about. Those who have a problem with transsexuals complaining about it, and those who do not defending them.

I've not brought up their sex life at all in this discussion. All that I've talked about has been sex change operations and suicide rates.
 
I've not brought up their sex life at all in this discussion. All that I've talked about has been sex change operations and suicide rates.

For what reasons do you imagine one would subject themselves to surgery, ridicule, depression and the hate filled scrutiny involved. What would be your reasoning for even caring?

Is it your compassionate wish to save these folks from killing themselves?

Could it be that you consider them to be Icky?

Surely there is a reason that has nothing to do with their sexuality.
 
For what reasons do you imagine one would subject themselves to surgery, ridicule, depression and the hate filled scrutiny involved. What would be your reasoning for even caring?

Is it your compassionate wish to save these folks from killing themselves?

Could it be that you consider them to be Icky?

Surely there is a reason that has nothing to do with their sexuality.

There you go.
 
You're just using a circular definition to satisfy your ignorance.

That is THE definition. It is Merriam Webster... not something I just made up, like you are doing. What other universally accepted terms do you disagree with?

Stress can happen for all sorts of reasons. By telling someone their gender is illegitimate, you insult them, and that creates stress where there was none.

You said that causing a person stress is a form of oppression. Is a person diagnosed with ADD but doesn't feel it is that accurate and is stressed as a result being oppressed or not?

Answer the question.
 
Oh, is a sterile person with male genitalia not a man ?

Not according to you... a sterile person with male genitalia could well be a woman.

Why are you contradicting yourself? Why are you oppressing people? Why don't you care if they committ suicide?
 
That is THE definition. It is Merriam Webster... not something I just made up, like you are doing. What other universally accepted terms do you disagree with?

You said that causing a person stress is a form of oppression. Is a person diagnosed with ADD but doesn't feel it is that accurate and is stressed as a result being oppressed or not?

Answer the question.

Unless you define the terms used in the definition, you won't be able to understand what i'm saying.

Gender: The state of being male or female (typically in reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones).
- Google.

Gender: the behavioral, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with sex.
-Merriam-Webster

Sorry but you're so far in the wrong i'm honestly embarrassed for you...

I noticed that you used the hateful, bigoted, and ignorant term of "male" to describe genitalia.

You're confusing the use of terms with the use of terms in a way that is hateful.

It's a common fallacy for bigots.

Not according to you... a sterile person with male genitalia could well be a woman.

Why are you contradicting yourself? Why are you oppressing people? Why don't you care if they committ suicide?

I was asking someone who denies that people are able to change their gender. I was asking for their view, not suggesting my own.

Pitiful strawman...
 
You said that causing a person stress is a form of oppression. Is a person diagnosed with ADD but doesn't feel it is that accurate and is stressed as a result being oppressed or not?

Answer the question.

No.

When someone else insults you due to arbitrary ignorance out of your control, that's a form of oppression.
 
Unless you define the terms used in the definition, you won't be able to understand what i'm saying.

Gender: The state of being male or female (typically in reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones).
- Google.

Gender: the behavioral, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with sex.
-Merriam-Webster

Sorry but you're so far in the wrong i'm honestly embarrassed for you...



You're confusing the use of terms with the use of terms in a way that is hateful.

It's a common fallacy for bigots.



I was asking someone who denies that people are able to change their gender. I was asking for their view, not suggesting my own.

Pitiful strawman...

Lol... I could prove you wrong by shifting the bold to the spots of the definitions you chose to ignore.

Oh, and btw... They are now teaching kids in grade school to not use gender terms, like "boy" or "girl".

And regardless, perception does not change reality. A person on acid perceives the ability to fly, and so jumps out the window, reality sees that situation not ending well.
 
Lol... I could prove you wrong by shifting the bold to the spots of the definitions you chose to ignore.

Oh, and btw... They are now teaching kids in grade school to not use gender terms, like "boy" or "girl".

And regardless, perception does not change reality. A person on acid perceives the ability to fly, and so jumps out the window, reality sees that situation not ending well.

It is good to see you posting outside the Conspiracy Forum.
 
It is good to see you posting outside the Conspiracy Forum.

Ya, on this topic, it's a real frustration... I have a few friends that are gay or lesbian, and I truly do not care, they are good people.

However, the leaders of the every letter but H(etero) crowd are pushing beyond the concept of tolerance / acceptance into areas that are crossing into pedophelia, and a distortion of... Let's say traditional sexuality.

It's one thing to have people accept people for who they are, yet, they are intolerant of others who do not follow their beliefs, and that is where I must comment, or things will just continue into the realm of absurdity.

It's also truly frustrating because there are so many much more pertinent issues to discuss...
 
Ya, on this topic, it's a real frustration... I have a few friends that are gay or lesbian, and I truly do not care, they are good people.

However, the leaders of the every letter but H(etero) crowd are pushing beyond the concept of tolerance / acceptance into areas that are crossing into pedophelia, and a distortion of... Let's say traditional sexuality.

It's one thing to have people accept people for who they are, yet, they are intolerant of others who do not follow their beliefs, and that is where I must comment, or things will just continue into the realm of absurdity.

It's also truly frustrating because there are so many much more pertinent issues to discuss...

I had gay friends in the past but moved away and they were good friends. I was made an honorary gay person (in jest) because I was one of the few straight guys that would go to openly gay parties... they were fun. New Years and Oscar parties. I could literally care less who identifies as what. I care that people are kind, pay their taxes, help old ladies to their car with grocery's, etc. That said, understanding that a man that thinks/feels he is a woman is still actually a man is not rude. I am not yelling at Renae here "you are a ****ing man! Deal with it!" and never would. Absent glare can't differentiate between a debate over facts and being rude. If a person thinks the Earth is flat I will debate it. In RL I would never mock that person or even debate them, in all honesty. No point plus it would be mean but THIS IS A DEBATE SITE and Absent Glare and some others CAN'T SEEM TO GRASP THE DISTINCTION!!! ARGH!!!
 
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