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Should transwomen be legally treated as women?[W:165,1392]

Should transwomen be legally trreated as women?


  • Total voters
    160
Ok. Honestly I have no disagreement there. You present solid data to back up what you are saying, and don't resort to the nowadays common twisting/screwing with the numbers to make your point.



Still agree.



Here's where we start to skew.



And now we arrive at... I think your conclusion is wrong given the available data. There is nothing considerable in any of these numbers. And the sample size and method sucks anyway. They're both a half assed ****ty attempt for a study, and don't represent the real world at all.

Given the sample size and the estimated population of transsexuals in America the margin of error was 5.5% according to this site.

http://www.surveysystem.com/sscalc.htm

So no nothing was skewed.

And yeah I would say that a difference of at most 14.4% and 40% is a considerable difference. I dont know how it couldnt be.
 
And how is that in any way unique to trans people?



Again, not unique to trans folks. I know several people that deal with the exact same "acceptance from family" issues while being white-cis-scum, as the trans community so eloquently puts it.



That's just how it is. As a hypothetical, if I was in the above family group, I would fully accept my cousin/sister/brother/whatever regardless of what they want to identify themselves as. There are some major issues though when it comes to "LEGALLY" defining people as the opposite sex. It's pretty simple.

No legal problems.

When i was at the DMV getting my drivers license, nobody groped my genitalia to see what was or was not there. They just issued me a DL- so what's the "major" issue?

When has someone else's legal gender ever created a problem for you...? By law, gender equality is guaranteed, so it really should not matter, at all, as in, not even the tiniest sliver of a bit.

Trans people face those things in much higher degrees, by much greater numbers of people. That is how it is different.

And please tell us the legal problems that occur with changing a persons legal sex.

I can't believe they compared being oppressed for being white and cis-gendered (which i am and never felt any sense of oppression) to being trans*. Look, you can't just say your problems are equal to someone else's... You have all kinds of posters in this thread seriously insulting the trans* entire lifestyle, nobody does that about cisgender.
 
Given the sample size and the estimated population of transsexuals in America the margin of error was 5.5% according to this site.

Sample Size Calculator - Confidence Level, Confidence Interval, Sample Size, Population Size, Relevant Population - Creative Research Systems

So no nothing was skewed.

And yeah I would say that a difference of at most 14.4% and 40% is a considerable difference. I dont know how it couldnt be.

Conclusion seeking.

They want to believe that SRS is ineffective because their prejudice considers trans* to be a perversion, a defect that should be shunned or purged.
 
I agree, and 4 or 5 years ago I probably would have just flat out apologized for being so "hateful".

Nowadays, I'm so sick of being seen as the enemy because I am white and cis and male. With the BLM and trans and fems activists everywhere demonizing me and people like me, I am sick of it and I am tired of being sorry. I live my life "colorblind" and "raceblind" and "sexblind". I wish everybody else would do the same and just STFU about it, and judge people on their merits instead of their size/gender/race.

And now your doing the same thing to two other groups. You are just like the people you seem to dislike.
 
Conclusion seeking.

They want to believe that SRS is ineffective because their prejudice considers trans* to be a perversion, a defect that should be shunned or purged.

No, that is our conclusion based on the available data.
 
Only you are making yourself to be the enemy though. It is all in your head, but then you act on those thoughts, posting stupid comments and generalizations claiming whole communities all think a certain way, which leads to you getting targeted for those comments. It has zero to do with those other traits of you.

Yeah, trans people posting "die white cis scum" and constantly bitching and moaning about how oppressive we are is just me making it all up in my head. :roll:
 
Trans people face those things in much higher degrees, by much greater numbers of people. That is how it is different.

BS. The issues you listed are in NO WAY unique to trans people.

And please tell us the legal problems that occur with changing a persons legal sex.

Uhm. This thread is full of 1200 posts discussing them. Do you really need me to recap and hold your hand for you?
 
Given the sample size and the estimated population of transsexuals in America the margin of error was 5.5% according to this site.

Sample Size Calculator - Confidence Level, Confidence Interval, Sample Size, Population Size, Relevant Population - Creative Research Systems

So no nothing was skewed.

And yeah I would say that a difference of at most 14.4% and 40% is a considerable difference. I dont know how it couldnt be.

We'll just have to agree to disagree then. I think it was a worthless ****ty survey, you don't, end of story.
 
No legal problems.

When i was at the DMV getting my drivers license, nobody groped my genitalia to see what was or was not there. They just issued me a DL- so what's the "major" issue?

Oh so you admittedly lie on your legal documents then eh? That's good to know that dudes can just put on a dress and go get a falsified piece of ID. :thumbs:

When has someone else's legal gender ever created a problem for you...? By law, gender equality is guaranteed, so it really should not matter, at all, as in, not even the tiniest sliver of a bit.

It hasn't. Doesn't mean I have to coddle you and agree with you when I feel you are wrong.

I can't believe they compared being oppressed for being white and cis-gendered (which i am and never felt any sense of oppression) to being trans*.

Go back and re-read. That is not at all what was said. I am not crying about being oppressed, I am sick of these activists that all are more way more racist and sexist than the people they claim to be "sticking it to". You are really gonna say you aren't familiar with "kill all white men"? Or "die cis scum"? "Drinking white male tears"? It's all over the place these days, and those people are making the rest of the group look really bad.

Look, you can't just say your problems are equal to someone else's... You have all kinds of posters in this thread seriously insulting the trans* entire lifestyle, nobody does that about cisgender.

Yep, full on blinders mode it is then.
 
We'll just have to agree to disagree then. I think it was a worthless ****ty survey, you don't, end of story.

Sure. As long as you realize that you never actually explained why you think that then fine by me.
 
Yeah, trans people posting "die white cis scum" and constantly bitching and moaning about how oppressive we are is just me making it all up in my head. :roll:

Realistically, hardly anyone gives a **** about white cis scum. Maybe, what, 0.0001% ?

Trans* are oppressed by like 50%+. And, they have to deal with the fact that they consider themselves unusual because of the oppressive conformity of cultural stereotypes.

No one gives a **** about white cis gender problems because there aren't any. No one cares if you use the restroom that you think best reflects your gender. No one cares if your legal status reflects which gender you associate with most. No one.

Even if someone says they do, they are only saying that because of trans* bigotry, not because of status as white and cis gender.

BS. The issues you listed are in NO WAY unique to trans people.

Uhm. This thread is full of 1200 posts discussing them. Do you really need me to recap and hold your hand for you?

Trans* are met with bigotry, ignorance, intolerance, and hatred on a regular basis. I'm quite certain that you have absolutely no idea what that's like. Lucky you.

Name one if they're just so plentiful.

We'll just have to agree to disagree then. I think it was a worthless ****ty survey, you don't, end of story.

I don't think anyone gives a **** about worthless, ****ty opinions.

Oh so you admittedly lie on your legal documents then eh? That's good to know that dudes can just put on a dress and go get a falsified piece of ID. :thumbs:

It hasn't. Doesn't mean I have to coddle you and agree with you when I feel you are wrong.

Go back and re-read. That is not at all what was said. I am not crying about being oppressed, I am sick of these activists that all are more way more racist and sexist than the people they claim to be "sticking it to". You are really gonna say you aren't familiar with "kill all white men"? Or "die cis scum"? "Drinking white male tears"? It's all over the place these days, and those people are making the rest of the group look really bad.

Yep, full on blinders mode it is then.

There's no lying involved when a trans* indicates their associated gender. Your ignorance is not recognized by law. The law requires that all people are treated equally. There's not a good reason why gender is even the government's business since, by law, they must treat both genders equally.

But i think i understand your confusion. You think that gender is more than just a label. It's not, you're just demonstrating how foolish and ignorant your views are.

I don't care what hate you claim people put in your direction. Frankly, when you come here accusing me of being a crossdresser who lied to the government, it makes me feel like it was well earned.
 
Realistically, hardly anyone gives a **** about white cis scum. Maybe, what, 0.0001% ?

It's one of those loud minority things.

Trans* are oppressed by like 50%+. And, they have to deal with the fact that they consider themselves unusual because of the oppressive conformity of cultural stereotypes.

The SJW's favorite game. Oppression olympics. Cry me a river.

No one gives a **** about white cis gender problems because there aren't any.

Oh for **** sakes. Really? Yeah white cis straight people have no problems. We're all perfect and the world completely bends to our will. Once again the one crying about others being so ignorant is the truly ignorant one.

No one cares if you use the restroom that you think best reflects your gender. No one cares if your legal status reflects which gender you associate with most. No one.

That's because we're doing what's called NORMAL. There is nothing odd about using the bathroom that matches your sex. There is nothing odd about saying MALE on your drivers license when you were IN FACT BORN A MALE. If you want people to stop caring and stop pointing out things that are weird, start telling the truth for starters.

Even if someone says they do, they are only saying that because of trans* bigotry, not because of status as white and cis gender.

Yeah, ok. Now who's generalizing?

Trans* are met with bigotry, ignorance, intolerance, and hatred on a regular basis. I'm quite certain that you have absolutely no idea what that's like. Lucky you.

Yep here we go again. You'll notice that not ONCE in this thread have I denied that trans people have problems. I have simply pointed out certain things that are NOT UNIQUE to trans people. Now here you are flat out saying "CIS PEOPLE HAVE NO PROBLEMS". "YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE". The only one closed minded here in this is you. Which is pretty telling when 99% of the trans activists I come across are the most bigoted hateful POS people I've ever come across.

Name one if they're just so plentiful.

No, you're right. My life is perfect. I've never had a single problem ever in my entire life. It's so great being white and male and cis and straight. :lol:

I don't think anyone gives a **** about worthless, ****ty opinions.

And yet here you are, spouting yours anyway.

There's no lying involved when a trans* indicates their associated gender.

You see that spot on your drivers license where it says "SEX"? I do. It's the same there in CO as it is here in NM. What I don't see is a line that says "what is your special snowflake preferred gender pronoun that doesn't offend you". What you actually did was put female on your drivers license under SEX, not GENDER.

Now who's the one confusing the two terms, cupcake?

Your ignorance is not recognized by law. The law requires that all people are treated equally. There's not a good reason why gender is even the government's business since, by law, they must treat both genders equally.

Yeah that's fine. Still doesn't give anyone the right to lie about their identity and SEX on government issued ID.

But i think i understand your confusion. You think that gender is more than just a label. It's not, you're just demonstrating how foolish and ignorant your views are.

Yeah show me again where it says GENDER on your ID. It says SEX. lol keep flinging the "foolish and ignorant" personal attacks, it just makes it that much sweeter when I absolutely own you on this SEX/GENDER thing. You are so wrong it is hilarious.

I don't care what hate you claim people put in your direction.

Likewise.

Frankly, when you come here accusing me of being a crossdresser who lied to the government,

Sorry that the truth hurts, but that is all I am doing... pointing out the truth.

it makes me feel like it was well earned.

Being hated by the officially mentally ill has never been a real problem for me. It certainly doesn't keep me up at night.
 
It's one of those loud minority things.
The SJW's favorite game. Oppression olympics. Cry me a river.

Oh for **** sakes. Really? Yeah white cis straight people have no problems. We're all perfect and the world completely bends to our will. Once again the one crying about others being so ignorant is the truly ignorant one.

That's because we're doing what's called NORMAL. There is nothing odd about using the bathroom that matches your sex. There is nothing odd about saying MALE on your drivers license when you were IN FACT BORN A MALE. If you want people to stop caring and stop pointing out things that are weird, start telling the truth for starters.

Yeah, ok. Now who's generalizing?

Yep here we go again. You'll notice that not ONCE in this thread have I denied that trans people have problems. I have simply pointed out certain things that are NOT UNIQUE to trans people. Now here you are flat out saying "CIS PEOPLE HAVE NO PROBLEMS". "YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE". The only one closed minded here in this is you. Which is pretty telling when 99% of the trans activists I come across are the most bigoted hateful POS people I've ever come across.

No, you're right. My life is perfect. I've never had a single problem ever in my entire life. It's so great being white and male and cis and straight. :lol:

And yet here you are, spouting yours anyway.

You see that spot on your drivers license where it says "SEX"? I do. It's the same there in CO as it is here in NM. What I don't see is a line that says "what is your special snowflake preferred gender pronoun that doesn't offend you". What you actually did was put female on your drivers license under SEX, not GENDER.

Now who's the one confusing the two terms, cupcake?

Yeah that's fine. Still doesn't give anyone the right to lie about their identity and SEX on government issued ID.

Yeah show me again where it says GENDER on your ID. It says SEX. lol keep flinging the "foolish and ignorant" personal attacks, it just makes it that much sweeter when I absolutely own you on this SEX/GENDER thing. You are so wrong it is hilarious.
Likewise.

Sorry that the truth hurts, but that is all I am doing... pointing out the truth.

Being hated by the officially mentally ill has never been a real problem for me. It certainly doesn't keep me up at night.

Oh i'm sure you have problems. You're painting a picture of someone with serious issues. None of them are caused by your status as white or cis gendered.

If you want to discriminate against anyone who isn't "NORMAL", that's your personal problem and i cannot rationally combat nonsense like that.

Trans* problems are unique to the trans* community. No amount of senseless whining will make their qualms equally applicable to you.

The drivers license is used to identify the bearer. Among the physical characteristics shown are height, weight, and hair color. The entry for sex is more accurately for the purpose of identification, all that matters is the appearance of sex which is actually the bearer's gender. Nice try.

A lie has to be intentional. Someone who believes they are a woman is not lying if they describe themselves as female. Again, completely fruitless complaint, but nice try.
 
Oh i'm sure you have problems. You're painting a picture of someone with serious issues. None of them are caused by your status as white or cis gendered.

If you want to discriminate against anyone who isn't "NORMAL", that's your personal problem and i cannot rationally combat nonsense like that.

Trans* problems are unique to the trans* community. No amount of senseless whining will make their qualms equally applicable to you.

The drivers license is used to identify the bearer. Among the physical characteristics shown are height, weight, and hair color. The entry for sex is more accurately for the purpose of identification, all that matters is the appearance of sex which is actually the bearer's gender. Nice try.

A lie has to be intentional. Someone who believes they are a woman is not lying if they describe themselves as female. Again, completely fruitless complaint, but nice try.

A medical doctor cares not a whit for what you identify as.
 
Yeah, trans people posting "die white cis scum" and constantly bitching and moaning about how oppressive we are is just me making it all up in my head. :roll:

Transpeople or a transperson or two? I highly doubt it was a lot of trans people. This argument is like me hating all Christians because WBC and some relatively few other Christians have said some really hateful crap about gays and nonChristians.
 
Oh i'm sure you have problems. You're painting a picture of someone with serious issues. None of them are caused by your status as white or cis gendered.

Yep. I don't cater to the special snowflake brigade and am tearing your arguments apart, so now I've got serious issues. :roll:

If you want to discriminate against anyone who isn't "NORMAL", that's your personal problem and i cannot rationally combat nonsense like that.

It's not discriminating to believe that men shouldn't be in the MMA ring with women. It isn't discriminating to not want my daughter in the locker room with naked boys. I don't care how much makeup they put on or what color dresses they wear. They are still MALE. Always will be.

Trans* problems are unique to the trans* community. No amount of senseless whining will make their qualms equally applicable to you.

I specifically pointed out problems that are NOT unique to being trans. You then whined about "OH YOU JUST DON'T GET IT, WAHHH". Now you want to shift the goalposts, so whatever I guess.

The drivers license is used to identify the bearer. Among the physical characteristics shown are height, weight, and hair color. The entry for sex is more accurately for the purpose of identification, all that matters is the appearance of sex which is actually the bearer's gender. Nice try.

Haha. Twistin' the night away.

A lie has to be intentional. Someone who believes they are a woman is not lying if they describe themselves as female. Again, completely fruitless complaint, but nice try.

My apologies. You are correct. There is definitely a difference between someone who KNOWS they aren't a woman so are purposely lying, and somebody that truthfully thinks they are something they aren't.
 
Transpeople or a transperson or two? I highly doubt it was a lot of trans people. This argument is like me hating all Christians because WBC and some relatively few other Christians have said some really hateful crap about gays and nonChristians.

Yeah i found one white guy that was mean to me, so let's degrade, insult, alienate, and bully all white people, forever, without question.

/sarcasm
 
Transpeople or a transperson or two? I highly doubt it was a lot of trans people. This argument is like me hating all Christians because WBC and some relatively few other Christians have said some really hateful crap about gays and nonChristians.

Well let's do a quick sample. So far, 100% of the trans people in this thread have had the "woe is me I'm so oppressed by the cissies" attitude.

Go take a look on twitter or tumblr for cis scum.

Yeah. Totally just a couple of them. :roll:
 
Yep. I don't cater to the special snowflake brigade and am tearing your arguments apart, so now I've got serious issues. :roll:



It's not discriminating to believe that men shouldn't be in the MMA ring with women. It isn't discriminating to not want my daughter in the locker room with naked boys. I don't care how much makeup they put on or what color dresses they wear. They are still MALE. Always will be.



I specifically pointed out problems that are NOT unique to being trans. You then whined about "OH YOU JUST DON'T GET IT, WAHHH". Now you want to shift the goalposts, so whatever I guess.



Haha. Twistin' the night away.



My apologies. You are correct. There is definitely a difference between someone who KNOWS they aren't a woman so are purposely lying, and somebody that truthfully thinks they are something they aren't.

You're free, in this country, to be bigoted. You're not always free to act on said bigotry.

It is discriminating (google: discrimination definition). I'm not against some forms of discrimination. Nothing is going to stop children from eventually seeing naked bodies, there's no need to freak out about it. MMA could have its own distinctions, i'm not sure what you're afraid of, there. You could just as well have a female hopped up on steroids, tipping the scales.

The attitudes culturally conveyed about trans* are in no relevant way equivalent to the attitudes culturally conveyed about being white and cis gendered. Everyone has problems, on that, you are right. So why make life harder on someone else for no reason ...?
 
Well let's do a quick sample. So far, 100% of the trans people in this thread have had the "woe is me I'm so oppressed by the cissies" attitude.

Go take a look on twitter or tumblr for cis scum.

Yeah. Totally just a couple of them. :roll:

Who, here, is trans*...?
 
You're free, in this country, to be bigoted. You're not always free to act on said bigotry.

Uhm. Ok?

It is discriminating (google: discrimination definition). I'm not against some forms of discrimination. Nothing is going to stop children from eventually seeing naked bodies, there's no need to freak out about it.

The fact that this younger generation is too stupid to understand why there are separate change rooms is not my problem. The fact of the matter is, we do it for a reason, and always have. It is not YOUR right to go and push this BS on MY children. Little girls don't need to see your dick in the change room. Period.

MMA could have its own distinctions, i'm not sure what you're afraid of, there. You could just as well have a female hopped up on steroids, tipping the scales.

And? That's illegal too so what the **** is your point?

The attitudes culturally conveyed about trans* are in no relevant way equivalent to the attitudes culturally conveyed about being white and cis gendered. Everyone has problems, on that, you are right. So why make life harder on someone else for no reason ...?

Because people are getting sick of you activists wanting to change everything to suit your own twisted agendas. It's not "making things harder for you for no reason" when I don't want you naked and changing with my 10 year old girl. It's really not. I'm not trying to make things harder for YOU. I am sticking up for what I think is right for me and my family. Sorry that the two are at odds with each other, which is why I have suggested in the past that we go to a 3 room system, adding a unisex room for trans and people that otherwise don't care. It's the best compromise for that particular problem.
 
Who, here, is trans*...?
What he is trying to do is belittle the problems trans people face by acting like trans people say that everyone who is cis, that their lives are perfect. Which they really don't do
 
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