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Should transwomen be legally treated as women?[W:165,1392]

Should transwomen be legally trreated as women?

  • Total voters
    160
Absentglare said:
If you didn't know it was a dog in an elaborate cat costume, if it was literally indistinguishable from a cat in every way, why would it be wrong for a stranger to call it a cat?

No, the stranger would simply be choosing the best available description of the observation set.
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Because it is a dog.
 
Absentglare said:
The suicide rate isn't the only available assessment of the success of the surgery.

Basically 100% of trans* have to deal with ignorance, bigotry, fear, and oppression.
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So if the suicide rate is still sky-high after the surgery, then what is the rationale?
 
phattonez said:
Because it is a dog.
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What if, instead of arguing over whether it is a "dog" or a "cat" (sexual anatomy) to whether it "appears to be a dog," or "appears to be a cat," (gender) ?

Is it okay to say it appears to be a cat?

Wouldn't it, in fact, be wrong to say that it appears to be a dog ?
 
They should be legally committed and then treated.
 
Absentglare said:
What if, instead of arguing over whether it is a "dog" or a "cat" (sexual anatomy) to whether it "appears to be a dog," or "appears to be a cat," (gender) ?

Is it okay to say it appears to be a cat?

Wouldn't it, in fact, be wrong to say that it appears to be a dog ?
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So you are resorting to dressing cats up as dogs and hiding them within society to prove that 100% of society should call you a girl if you are hiding a penis? Stop using people who were born with genital issues and attaching your desires to it please. You shouldnt get sympathy as a cross dresser just because some fluke person was born a hermaphrodite and you wanna use their personal tragedy to gain sympathy.
 
dirtpoorchris said:
So you are resorting to dressing cats up as dogs and hiding them within society to prove that 100% of society should call you a girl if you are hiding a penis? Stop using people who were born with genital issues and attaching your desires to it please. You shouldnt get sympathy as a cross dresser just because some fluke person was born a hermaphrodite and you wanna use their personal tragedy to gain sympathy.
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Tragedy?

Is this like those anti-vaxxers who would rather have a dead child than an autistic one ?

There's nothing wrong with being trans* or a hermaphrodite. Your ignorance of conditions that are statistically unusual does not justify bigotry as you suggest.

This has nothing to do with personal desires. This has to do with not holding someone's biology against them. They don't have control over whether or not they feel masculine or feminine. The same way that racial or sexual orientation should not be held against a person, any gender/anatomy mismatch should be treated with compassion, not with hatred, bigotry, and a stubborn refusal to accept another human being.

Frankly, i'm not sure why you care so much about controlling everyone's gender. It's bizarre.
 
Absentglare said:
Tragedy?

Is this like those anti-vaxxers who would rather have a dead child than an autistic one ?

There's nothing wrong with being trans* or a hermaphrodite. Your ignorance of conditions that are statistically unusual does not justify bigotry as you suggest.

This has nothing to do with personal desires. This has to do with not holding someone's biology against them. They don't have control over whether or not they feel masculine or feminine. The same way that racial or sexual orientation should not be held against a person, any gender/anatomy mismatch should be treated with compassion, not with hatred, bigotry, and a stubborn refusal to accept another human being.

Frankly, i'm not sure why you care so much about controlling everyone's gender. It's bizarre.
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All i see is cross dressers trying to ride on the coattails of a few people with actual gender issues.
 
Absentglare said:
What if, instead of arguing over whether it is a "dog" or a "cat" (sexual anatomy) to whether it "appears to be a dog," or "appears to be a cat," (gender) ?

Is it okay to say it appears to be a cat?

Wouldn't it, in fact, be wrong to say that it appears to be a dog ?
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Appearance doesn't change the actual substance of the thing. Even by your admission you can only change the appearance. The underlying reality of the person does not change. Thus, the dog is a dog.
 
Omgitsme said:
It shows that the lifetime attempted suicide rate for trans people is 42% for MTFs and 46% for FTMs. What it doesnt do is support you claim that SRS isnt effective because it isnt a comparison between trans people who have had SRS and trans people who havent had SRS.
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Sorry, look at table 5.

Suicide rate for those who want a sex change operation (MTF example): 43%
Suicide rate for those who have had a sex change operation: 43%

Most interesting to me is the fact that hormone treatment seems to increase the risk of suicide attempt.
 
Absentglare said:
What if, instead of arguing over whether it is a "dog" or a "cat" (sexual anatomy) to whether it "appears to be a dog," or "appears to be a cat," (gender) ?

Is it okay to say it appears to be a cat?

Wouldn't it, in fact, be wrong to say that it appears to be a dog ?
Click to expand...

Holy hell... get over it.

We have a student (girl) who has really short hair and a teacher popped in and referrenced her for something but said "'he' is working well". This happend yesterday.She was extremely embarrassed, kids laughed and teh teacher bent over backwards apologizing... Do you know why people reacted that way? BECAUSE SHE IS A GIRL.
 
Absentglare said:
What if, instead of arguing over whether it is a "dog" or a "cat" (sexual anatomy) to whether it "appears to be a dog," or "appears to be a cat," (gender) ?

Is it okay to say it appears to be a cat?

Wouldn't it, in fact, be wrong to say that it appears to be a dog ?
Click to expand...

phattonez said:
Even by your admission you can only change the appearance. The underlying reality of the person does not change.
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Great point. Debate over Absentglare.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Great point. Debate over Absentglare.
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I already know i've won, every academic source wholeheartedly agrees with me.

Gender is the appearance of roles characterized by masculinity and femininity. There is more to being masculine or feminine than simple sexual anatomy. The major real ways that you use to determine someone's gender is by their appearance.

In this case, seeming is truly being.

It is irresponsible to maintain ignorance for the sake of pride. Stop letting your brain be so lazy.
 
phattonez said:
Sorry, look at table 5.

Suicide rate for those who want a sex change operation (MTF example): 43%
Suicide rate for those who have had a sex change operation: 43%

Most interesting to me is the fact that hormone treatment seems to increase the risk of suicide attempt.
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This line is from your link in the paragraph above table 5.

"The survey did not provide information about the timing of reported suicide attempts in relation to receiving transition-related health care"

Its a lifetime suicide rate. So in other words someone who is pretransition could attempt suicide and survive then get hormones and SRS and then get counted in the "have had SRS and attempted suicide" category. In order to show that SRS is ineffective at lowering the suicide rate you would need a study that compares two groups of trans people. The first group would be trans people who have not had SRS but have started hormones and only count suicide attempts after they have started hormones. And the second group would be trans people who have started hormones and HRT and only count suicide attempts after SRS. Does that make sense at all? If not I could try and explain it better.
 
phattonez said:
Appearance doesn't change the actual substance of the thing. Even by your admission you can only change the appearance. The underlying reality of the person does not change. Thus, the dog is a dog.
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Absentglare said:
I already know i've won, every academic source wholeheartedly agrees with me.

Gender is the appearance of roles characterized by masculinity and femininity. There is more to being masculine or feminine than simple sexual anatomy. The major real ways that you use to determine someone's gender is by their appearance.

In this case, seeming is truly being.

It is irresponsible to maintain ignorance for the sake of pride. Stop letting your brain be so lazy.
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You were just completely OWNED... :lol:

Deal with it.
 
Absentglare said:
Go read all the other replies.

The only thing your quotes prove is that that poster shares your lack of understanding of the subject matter.
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Dude, I comletely trashed your argument... repeatedly to. No need to do it again.
 
People changing their sex and legally being able to live as that sex. What an embarrassing age to be a part of. So in this scenario I meet a man who has became a woman with all the bells and whistles, fall in love, date this person for years maybe even marry them, and never find out she is a he bc legally he's a she now even on paper. In what world is that ok? That is sickening.
 
Jhamm83 said:
People changing their sex and legally being able to live as that sex. What an embarrassing age to be a part of. So in this scenario I meet a man who has became a woman with all the bells and whistles, fall in love, date this person for years maybe even marry them, and never find out she is a he bc legally he's a she now even on paper. In what world is that ok? That is sickening.
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Oh- is that what all this hate is about?

Men are afraid that the women around them might have been born with penises. It's just a bunch of misplaced homophobia.

That is sickening.
 
Absentglare said:
Oh- is that what all this hate is about?

Men are afraid that the women around them might have been born with penises. It's just a bunch of misplaced homophobia.

That is sickening.
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No what is sickening is living in a world where sex change is perfectly acceptable and normal. You don't like the way things are going? Hell change your sex and start over, no one needs to know, as long as it makes you happy.

Hell why stop there? I want to become an Indian woman and bare children, bc I just know that's what I was meant to be and everyone who dosnt accept this is an ignorant homophobic.

Seeing some of the things people have went through just to live I'm sorry if I don't pity someone who can't be happy with the sex they were born. If you cannot be happy with who you are simply bc you were born male or female you are not a hero, you are a person with some serious issues that need addressing.

Call it homophobia all you want, I have no problem with homosexuals. I do however have a serious problem with someone changing their sex to sleep with the same sex and not having to disclose that, wich is why a lot of people would have this change. That's perverted and sick. "But your a homophobe if you don't want to live in a world where any woman might have been a man" gtfo,,, people who think like this are a disease on society
 
Absentglare said:
Oh- is that what all this hate is about?

Men are afraid that the women around them might have been born with penises. It's just a bunch of misplaced homophobia.

That is sickening.
Click to expand...
Maybe it is.

Personally, I don't give a damn what you were born with.

I just find the thought of being in a relationship with a MtF transgender a bit disconcerting/disturbing. Maybe that's homophobia, I dunno. Maybe once I get to know a transgendered person I will be less disconcerted.


Of course, there's probably transgender assholes too, so maybe not.
 
The Mark said:
Maybe it is.

Personally, I don't give a damn what you were born with.

I just find the thought of being in a relationship with a MtF transgender a bit disconcerting/disturbing. Maybe that's homophobia, I dunno. Maybe once I get to know a transgendered person I will be less disconcerted.


Of course, there's probably transgender assholes too, so maybe not.
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If you're uncomfortable with the idea, i think that's completely normal.

If you're so afraid of it that you try to shame all trans* into suicide by, say, bellowing your intolerance all over the internet, then you may be suffering from misplaced homophobia.
 
Jhamm83 said:
No what is sickening is living in a world where sex change is perfectly acceptable and normal. You don't like the way things are going? Hell change your sex and start over, no one needs to know, as long as it makes you happy.

Hell why stop there? I want to become an Indian woman and bare children, bc I just know that's what I was meant to be and everyone who dosnt accept this is an ignorant homophobic.

Seeing some of the things people have went through just to live I'm sorry if I don't pity someone who can't be happy with the sex they were born. If you cannot be happy with who you are simply bc you were born male or female you are not a hero, you are a person with some serious issues that need addressing.

Call it homophobia all you want, I have no problem with homosexuals. I do however have a serious problem with someone changing their sex to sleep with the same sex and not having to disclose that, wich is why a lot of people would have this change. That's perverted and sick. "But your a homophobe if you don't want to live in a world where any woman might have been a man" gtfo,,, people who think like this are a disease on society
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Why do you feel so compelled to control other people?

Live and let live. Don't you have your own problems to deal with ?
 
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