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Do the wealthy have too much power in the United States?

Do the wealthy have too much power in the United States?

  • Total voters
    56
Dovkan said:
Call it what you want, and hint that 80% of human beings living on less then $10 a day as needing to try harder all you want, the fact is, capitalists always search for the cheapest labor, always look to pay the lowest wage, that's why we struggled for the minimum wage, labor unions, factory safety laws, child labor laws, etc.. The issue with that is, I always hear about the beauty of competition, but, if doing better in competition involves exploiting laborers at a dramatic level to produce more profit, E.G. Sweatshops, how is that good? Workers are underpaid in the majority of the world, if a sweatshop worker produces $100 in clothing in an hour and gets paid pennies, I don't see how that's not underpaid.
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This is America dude. Lets stick to this country. you can rage against the machine all you want but it just comes off as butt hurt envy here. The fact is capitalism and corporations have raised the standard of living for everyone substantially.
 
TurtleDude said:
This is America dude. Lets stick to this country. you can rage against the machine all you want but it just comes off as butt hurt envy here. The fact is capitalism and corporations have raised the standard of living for everyone substantially.
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Compared to what? Feudalism? Capitalism is not sustainable as time goes on, Feudalism was not working, and now, capitalism isn't working, people are beginning to realize this. I like to focus on more then one country instead of being willfully ignorant of the rest of the world, sorry. Good way to ignore my entire post by the way.
 
MildSteel said:
Although ordinary citizens can vote in national elections, the candidates must have funding that is backed by organizations that are controlled by those with wealth. As such the choices are limited.

Do the wealthy have too much power in the United States?
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Define "the wealthy."

Better yet, define "rich."
 
Dovkan said:
Compared to what? Feudalism? Capitalism is not sustainable as time goes on, Feudalism was not working, and now, capitalism isn't working, people are beginning to realize this. I like to focus on more then one country instead of being willfully ignorant of the rest of the world, sorry. Good way to ignore my entire post by the way.
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It's funny how you think that communism didn't fail because the state still exists, but capitalism is failing even if it is heavily controlled by the state.
 
Dovkan said:
You're now calling people, laborers, products. No wonder people fought so hard against the minimum wage, labor unions.. Henrin, you're not helping the "good" of capitalism I'm always told about.
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Labor is what the employer is looking to buy. Why would he not look for the best deal available?
 
Henrin said:
It's funny how you think that communism didn't fail because the state still exists, but capitalism is failing even if it is heavily controlled by the state.
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Communism, by definition, has no state. :)
Yes, capitalism is failing, however, regulations and control by the state help to alleviate/slow this, we all know what happens when capitalism goes wild without any regulation, history shows this.
 
EdwinWillers said:
Define "the wealthy."

Better yet, define "rich."
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I'm not going to give a rigorous definition. That said examples given earlier are Soros, Adelson, Koch brothers.
 
In non-Presidential elections the candidate who raises and spends the most money wins well over 90% of the time. Issues take a back seat. (Presidential elections are different because there is a lot of free press). And through PACs the wealthy can give as much money as they want. In today's America it is all about name recognition and marketing.

So of COURSE people like the Koch brothers and Soros have immensely more power than the average American. Politicians trip all over themselves to kiss their asses. It isn't even subtle.
 
Henrin said:
Labor is what the employer is looking to buy. Why would he not look for the best deal available?
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Because laborers are human beings, and it really shows how most capitalists will always exploit the cheapest labor, it's no surprise they fought against unions, the minimum wage, child labor laws.. It all affects the profit. I don't know man, I don't think all capitalists are bad particularly small business owners, but god damn, you're not helping your case.
 
Dovkan said:
Compared to what? Feudalism? Capitalism is not sustainable as time goes on, Feudalism was not working, and now, capitalism isn't working, people are beginning to realize this. I like to focus on more then one country instead of being willfully ignorant of the rest of the world, sorry. Good way to ignore my entire post by the way.
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capitalism is working fine. the biggest problem are the socialist attempts to screw it up by promising too many people too many government goodies in order to buy their votes when there isn't enough money to pay for all that crap
 
MildSteel said:
I'm not going to give a rigorous definition. That said examples given earlier are Soros, Adelson, Koch brothers.
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When we are talking about the kind of wealthy that buys politicians we aren't talking about people who fly first class everywhere. We are talking about people who own their own jets.
 
Dovkan said:
Communism, by definition, has no state. :)
Yes, capitalism is failing, however, regulations and control by the state help to alleviate/slow this, we all know what happens when capitalism goes wild without any regulation, history shows this.
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capitalism isn't failing.
 
TurtleDude said:
capitalism is working fine. the biggest problem are the socialist attempts to screw it up by promising too many people too many government goodies in order to buy their votes when there isn't enough money to pay for all that crap
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It is not working fine, have you seen what has happened without heavy regulations? What happens to countries that the capitalists exploit labor from? It may appear to work for first world countries, but it ****s everyone else, and relies on ****ing everyone else to sell cheap products to the first world to roll in profit, don't get me started on wall street... Jesus. Socialist attempts to screw it up.... Let me ask you, do you want workers to own the means of production? I'm pretty sure the answer is no, but I want to know if you're ok with that aspect.
 
Dovkan said:
Communism, by definition, has no state. :)
Yes, capitalism is failing, however, regulations and control by the state help to alleviate/slow this, we all know what happens when capitalism goes wild without any regulation, history shows this.
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No its not.

Socialism is failing and miserably. Capitalism thrives unless corrupted via progressive mandates and economic " solutions " based on " fairness " and " equality ".

Its what led to the 2008 Financial crisis and its what's corrupting the American economy currently.

Its a ignorant and lazy analysis to blame what's going on now on " Capitalism " and it's willfull ignorance to ignore the blatant failures of Socialism all over the world

And yes, we all know " Socialism doesn't really exist " and " Communism hasnt ever been effectively applied "...

It the same ridiculous excuse from ideologues who like to pretend that theyve stumbled accross a innovative solution to problems that only exist in their own heads
 
MildSteel said:
Although ordinary citizens can vote in national elections, the candidates must have funding that is backed by organizations that are controlled by those with wealth. As such the choices are limited.

Do the wealthy have too much power in the United States?
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More wealth is getting into their hands off the backs of many.
 
Thrilla said:
capitalism isn't failing.
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It is failing, the wealth gap, the reliance on holding down countries to exploit labor, It may be 'working' for the capitalists, and in countries with heavy regulations for the poor/middle class (Social programs), but it doesn't 'work' anywhere else. (Somalia, Haiti, Hong Kong, Russia, Honduras, Somalia, heck, the entire under developed world..)
 
Dovkan said:
Because laborers are human beings, and it really shows how most capitalists will always exploit the cheapest labor, it's no surprise they fought against unions, the minimum wage, child labor laws.. It all affects the profit. I don't know man, I don't think all capitalists are bad particularly small business owners, but god damn, you're not helping your case.
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I'm not making the case that capitalism is all warm and fuzzy and looking to change the world with it's warm heart, but making the case that labor is like anything else and is treated like it. You're trying to pretend that capitalism is evil because capitalists are looking for the best deal, but it has nothing to do with being good or bad, but with not overpaying for what you're looking to buy.

If you were looking to hire a contractor to do some work for you I have no doubt you would not hire the guy that wants to charge you twice as much for the job, so why do you expect employers to do it?
 
Fenton said:
No its not.

Socialism is failing and miserably. Capitalism thrives unless corrupted via progressive mandates and economic " solutions " based on " fairness " and " equality ".

Its what led to the 2008 Financial crisis and its what's corrupting the American economy currently.

Its a ignorant and lazy analysis to blame what's going on now on " Capitalism " and it's willfull ignorance to ignore the blatant failures of Socialism all over the world

And yes, we all know " Socialism doesn't really exist " and " Communism hasnt ever been effectively applied "...

It the same ridiculous excuse from ideologues who like to pretend that theyve stumbled accross a innovative solution to problems that only exist in their own heads
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You show me a "communist" state, which sounds ridiculous already, since communism is a system without a state, which, therefore. Bleh, not even worth explaining.
Socialism is failing? That is why the most socialist minded countries with socialist minded policies are doing fantastic, apart from hardly democratic countries with a history of revolutions, instability, etc..
Capitalism doesn't thrive without regulations! Don't you remember America in the past, england in the past, the time before labor unions, minimum wage, industrial safety..
Really? Show me how it was caused by regulations and not the failure of capitalists. The origins of the financial crisis: Crash course | The Economist
 
Dovkan said:
It is not working fine, have you seen what has happened without heavy regulations? What happens to countries that the capitalists exploit labor from? It may appear to work for first world countries, but it ****s everyone else, and relies on ****ing everyone else to sell cheap products to the first world to roll in profit, don't get me started on wall street... Jesus. Socialist attempts to screw it up.... Let me ask you, do you want workers to own the means of production? I'm pretty sure the answer is no, but I want to know if you're ok with that aspect.
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socialism sucks. its contrary to human nature, appeals to the lowest common denominator and is a ploy used by the power hungry to gain wealth and power illegitimately
 
Dovkan said:
It is failing, the wealth gap, the reliance on holding down countries to exploit labor, It may be 'working' for the capitalists, and in countries with heavy regulations for the poor/middle class (Social programs), but it doesn't 'work' anywhere else. (Somalia, Haiti, Hong Kong, Russia, Honduras, Somalia, heck, the entire under developed world..)
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no, it's not failing.... and you don't have a very good idea of what it is or what it does.
 
Henrin said:
I'm not making the case that capitalism is all warm and fuzzy and looking to change the world with it's warm heart, but making the case that labor is like anything else and is treated like it. You're trying to pretend that capitalism is evil because capitalists are looking for the best deal, but it has nothing to do with being good or bad, but with not overpaying for what you're looking to buy.

If you were looking to hire a contractor to do some work for you I have no doubt you would not hire the guy that wants to charge you twice as much for the job, so why do you expect employers to do it?
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Then don't you understand why I don't agree with such a system?
 
TurtleDude said:
socialism sucks. its contrary to human nature, appeals to the lowest common denominator and is a ploy used by the power hungry to gain wealth and power illegitimately
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You have no idea what human nature is, it goes both ways, and is influenced by factors in place, capitalism ENCOURAGES what we know as human nature today. It appeals to the workers who want to control the means of production. Power hungry? Capitalism isn't a way for those that are power hungry to get wealth and power illegitimately by exploiting the labor of actual hard working people?
 
Dovkan said:
Then don't you understand why I don't agree with such a system?
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I honestly think you don't know why you disagree with it. Tell me, would you hire the more expensive contractor even if the quality of his work is not any better than his cheaper competitor?
 
Dovkan said:
It is failing, the wealth gap, the reliance on holding down countries to exploit labor, It may be 'working' for the capitalists, and in countries with heavy regulations for the poor/middle class (Social programs), but it doesn't 'work' anywhere else. (Somalia, Haiti, Hong Kong, Russia, Honduras, Somalia, heck, the entire under developed world..)
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Dovkan said:
It is not working fine, have you seen what has happened without heavy regulations? What happens to countries that the capitalists exploit labor from? It may appear to work for first world countries, but it ****s everyone else, and relies on ****ing everyone else to sell cheap products to the first world to roll in profit, don't get me started on wall street... Jesus. Socialist attempts to screw it up.... Let me ask you, do you want workers to own the means of production? I'm pretty sure the answer is no, but I want to know if you're ok with that aspect.
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Workers have " NEVER owned the means of production " in a Socialist or Communist society.

Thats may have been the promise, the propaganda handed out to the naive and ignorant masses to revolt and instill some dictator who then gives the means of production to the State.

After that " the Workers " get to deal with the corruption and inefficiencies of Central planners.

When Chavez in Venezuela Nationalized their wealth producing industries he did it under the pretense of handing the means of production over to the workers.

Now Venezuela is a basket case and just another example of how destructive the Socialist ideology is.
 
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