View Poll Results: Do the wealthy have too much power in the United States?

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    45 77.59%
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Thread: Do the wealthy have too much power in the United States?

  1. #301
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    Re: Do the wealthy have too much power in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by EdwinWillers View Post
    Well, the reason I posted that is because a "rigorous definition" isn't possible for either - and you just demonstrated that. Indeed, both are completely relative terms - yet people like to use them in contexts like this as if they are definitive, easily understood, known and accepted by all - AN EASY STANDARD BY WHICH WE MIGHT JUDGE SOMEONE "GUILTY."

    And yet, they are anything but.

    When we start looking at someone with more money than we have, or more money than someone else has to decry them for their "riches" and "wealth" - we judge them accordingly, and when we do we err in an extremely egregious, unjust, and unfair manner.

    If as you and so many others here are asserting, that the "wealthy" are easily identifiable people like Soros, Adelson, the Koch brothers, et. al. - and that in a thread that is denouncing such people for being "the wealthy," then who - by whatever "rigorous definition" you can put forth for us - who by your definition is NOT guilty?

    I'll give you some help - you can't do it. It's not possible, by ANY definition, however "rigorous" one might think it.

    People here are equating guilt with wealth; they are judging an impossible to define group of people for what? For having more money (and in this context more power thereby). More money than what? What is the standard of guilt here?

    Impossible to define - and therefore totally unjust to be pronouncing anyone guilty on that basis. Totally unjust.
    You post is flawed at least in the following ways:

    1. It is possible to give a rigorous definition of it.
    2. No one is denouncing people for being wealthy

  2. #302
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    Re: Do the wealthy have too much power in the United States?

    I'd rather the people who have the power of their office didn't use that power to become wealthy.

  3. #303
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    Re: Do the wealthy have too much power in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Two dollars, two votes?
    You got it!

  4. #304
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    Re: Do the wealthy have too much power in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Libertie76 View Post
    I say yes because the wealthy can lobby congress to impose certain economic policies to sustain the certain industry they are currently involved in. So a wealthy union will force close shop laws as well as a company impose lobbying to have subsidies etc etc.

    I think the fact that a lot of American voters don't vote or pay enough attention to geopolitics that they don't really oppose the the funding.
    Lobbyist have been around forever. No different than protest or marches etc. They are all groups lobbing congress to change policies, for whatever their cause. Government can be very over reaching. Lobbyist, protesters, marchers etc voice their opinion on that overreach or they are pushing for more regulation. Green Peace as an example, there are many wealthy people trying to change laws that they think for one reason or another needs to be addressed etc. Can you imagine the wealth behind the push of climate change as an example. Those are also lobbyist of one nature or another.
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  5. #305
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    Re: Do the wealthy have too much power in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Juanita View Post
    Tsk tsk tsk. Let them eat cake?
    Let them eat anything they want and can afford.
    Quote Originally Posted by EarlzP View Post
    Why would you not want to register your weapon?
    Quote Originally Posted by Celebrity View Post
    , as long as you can own one or fewer guns, your right to bear a firearm is not being infringed upon.

  6. #306
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    Re: Do the wealthy have too much power in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Born Free View Post
    Lobbyist have been around forever. No different than protest or marches etc. They are all groups lobbing congress to change policies, for whatever their cause. Government can be very over reaching. Lobbyist, protesters, marchers etc voice their opinion on that overreach or they are pushing for more regulation. Green Peace as an example, there are many wealthy people trying to change laws that they think for one reason or another needs to be addressed etc. Can you imagine the wealth behind the push of climate change as an example. Those are also lobbyist of one nature or another.
    I'm speaking about lobbying for governmental involvement in market process, like bailouts etc etc. economic lobbyists that get paid millions and millions of dollars to promote protectionist policy of a firm should not be a power of gov.

  7. #307
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    Re: Do the wealthy have too much power in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Why is it exploitation to hire cheap labor?
    In the extreme cases, this can be very dehumanizing, and it costs lives. Sometimes people who get injured are simply cast out to die.

    Surely we can agree that it is wrong to treat people that way, even if it is good business?


    Quote Originally Posted by Dovkan View Post
    I'll give you a dumbed down example: A sweatshop worker makes $100 in clothing per hour, the capitalist realizes this worker doesn't have minimum wage protection, etc.. and only pays the worker 25 cents an hour, which is way more then what sweatshop workers actually make on average (Mexico is 3.00 per day on average I think?), but none the less, you can see how I oppose it, you may not follow the labor theory of value, but I do, so we will always disagree.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    so how much should the worker in your scenario receive in wages?
    I'm not sure what $0.25/hr can buy a laborer in Mexico.

    Will that allow a person to pay rent, pay for transport, enjoy some basic entertainment, and still save up something for a training for a better job, or a minimal retirement? I'd say that should be the goal.

    Capitalism is amoral, but that doesn't mean behaving morally is forbidden.

    Some few example exists of companies harnessing the benefits of treating labor as a long term partnership, rather than a part to be cast aside at the first excuse.

    One hopes they would be come more common, or that the government could incentivize them to behave this way.

  8. #308
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    Re: Do the wealthy have too much power in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by WillyPete View Post
    In the extreme cases, this can be very dehumanizing, and it costs lives. Sometimes people who get injured are simply cast out to die.

    Surely we can agree that it is wrong to treat people that way, even if it is good business?
    If your workforce is struggling in their personal affairs than your business suffers. Anything that you buy on the market you should keep good care of, be that your house, your car, your computer, your desk, or whatever you are concerned with, and the same is true for labor. A business that concern themselves with the well being of their workers enjoys a productive and happy workforce that will make the business more money and better products. There is of course a cut off to all things, and much like it is with cleaning a house there comes a point where the returns level out and any further action is an overall loss, so business should maintain balance and try to keep their workforce productive and happy, while not overpaying them.

  9. #309
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    Re: Do the wealthy have too much power in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Libertie76 View Post
    I'm speaking about lobbying for governmental involvement in market process, like bailouts etc etc. economic lobbyists that get paid millions and millions of dollars to promote protectionist policy of a firm should not be a power of gov.
    First lobbyist are not a power of government. I spoke in a broader sense of lobbyist, protest, marches etc. influencing government. I have to assume you are OK with these groups trying to influence government decision making. You cannot separate economic involvement, everything has an economic impact of some degree. Take Green Peace as an example, everything it promotes has an economic impact. People promoting global warming has an economic impact. Everything the EPA does has an economic impact and to suggest the people cannot lobby against the EPA is ridiculous.

    You are advocating that the government can impose economic impact on the American people all it wants and no one can lobby against the government for or against. Then you state lobbyist get paid millions of dollars as those they should not be paid. That is also ridiculous.
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    Re: Do the wealthy have too much power in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Born Free View Post
    First lobbyist are not a power of government. I spoke in a broader sense of lobbyist, protest, marches etc. influencing government. I have to assume you are OK with these groups trying to influence government decision making. You cannot separate economic involvement, everything has an economic impact of some degree. Take Green Peace as an example, everything it promotes has an economic impact. People promoting global warming has an economic impact. Everything the EPA does has an economic impact and to suggest the people cannot lobby against the EPA is ridiculous.

    You are advocating that the government can impose economic impact on the American people all it wants and no one can lobby against the government for or against. Then you state lobbyist get paid millions of dollars as those they should not be paid. That is also ridiculous.
    Do You tHink that government should have the power to impose trade regulations and specific tariffs to certain companies, and then open non regulations to others only because certain companies can afford a lobbyist?

    Do You understand what the economic effects of a export subsidy has on the American people or what about other trade protection policies, these fiscal policies are not the power the government should have as well as special interest taking advantage through campaign contributions.

    You call yourself a conservative but you don't understand the guidelines of the constitution. I can get millions of people to agree that a dog is a fish and my company specializes in protecting sea life on land, does that mean the federal government has the power to enforce a subsidy, or negative tax, towards my special interest? No, what the federal government literally only has the power to do is protect the constitution and citizens of the participating States.

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